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    Fort Lauderdale (Near Miami, Florida)
    One girl has died at the scene, happened 11am so around 4pm here.
    According to the press release the person reported with the gun didn't even know they'd shot anyone.:shifty:
    Something seriously needs to be done about guns in that country, Obama.
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    Only in America .....(and Finland)
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    Man, this country is so anti-gun.
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    Post election, gun sales went up in the US, actually.
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    (Original post by bexicle89)
    Something seriously needs to be done about guns in that country, Obama.
    Something needs to be done about that society, more importantly. If you weren't so ridiculously blinkered with anti-firearms rhetoric then you might just realise that.
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    what ******* stupid country allowing citizens to own licenses to own guns? let's hope something is done about this.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Something needs to be done about that society, more importantly. If you weren't so ridiculously blinkered with anti-firearms rhetoric then you might just realise that.
    Blanket a term, it's the same thing. In the US in some states you can register and get a gun a couple of days later, with little or no background checks. I take that to be more of a problem for the gun laws, however I'm not naive enough to generalise all Americans share this lifestyle so I dont think its fair to generalise it as their 'society'.
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    (1) Obama isn't going to fix stupid people.
    (2) We have guns, you have knives.

    Miami = the South London of Florida.
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    Well perhaps if students were allowed to conceal carry then people would have a chance to stop criminals use take open abuse to 'gun free zones'.
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    Guns don't kill people, rappers do. :cool:
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    (Original post by bexicle89)
    Blanket a term, it's the same thing. In the US in some states you can register and get a gun a couple of days later, with little or no background checks. I take that to be more of a problem for the gun laws, however I'm not naive enough to generalise all Americans share this lifestyle so I dont think its fair to generalise it as their 'society'.
    I most certainly do think I can blame their society. Take legal firearms out of the equation and the United States will still be a massively violent society with huge social divisions and the sort of young people who feel the urge to massacre their classmates. I rather think we should be addressing the issue of how schoolchildren manage to get to this stage - where several of them have now committed massacres and then taken their own lives - without somebody noticing, and help being given. I went to a few schools in my time, and say what you will about them, I certainly think if I had been deeply unhappy then it would have been noticed and hopefully I'd have been given the help I needed, or even prevented from getting to such levels of despair. How many are in this situation who don't take up arms against their friends? Too many, I should think.

    It's incredibly more important to tackle that than to make some ridiculous point about guns - the vast, vast, vast majority of which are in the hands of decent people who use them properly. The obvious point that secondary school children cannot legally own firearms seems to elude you.
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    (Original post by Amanda)
    (2) We have guns, you have knives.

    Miami = the South London of Florida.
    Though the number of people knifed in this country is miniscule compared to the number shot in yours. Also, you can kill a lot less people less quickly with a knife.

    (Original post by Tory Dan)
    Well perhaps if students were allowed to conceal carry then people would have a chance to stop criminals use take open abuse to 'gun free zones'.
    So, in essence, if EVERYONE carried a gun, people would be less likely to shoot other people because they'd be scared of getting shot back? That's ridiculous. Allow your libertarianism to be clouded by pragmatism.

    (Original post by L i b)
    I It's incredibly more important to tackle that than to make some ridiculous point about guns - the vast, vast, vast majority of which are in the hands of decent people who use them properly. The obvious point that secondary school children cannot legally own firearms seems to elude you.
    Well, no, secondary school children can't legally own firearms in the US. Just as secondary school children can't legally get drunk in this country... The fact is, it is far easier to get a gun in the USA. Thus, a mentally disturbed teenager is more likely to be able to massacre his class mates extensively and rapidly because of the increased access to guns. In this country, firearms are much more difficult to get hold of, so a similar situation (yes, I know of the Dunblane tragedy) would likely be carried out using a knife or other instrument. No other weapon has the emotional detatchedness of a firearm, or the speed or distance from which is can be used to kill.
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    It's hard to put gun laws through though, because of the constitutional right to "bear arms", which applies to every citizen of the US.

    It is a problem with society, as Lib said.
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    (Original post by Overground)
    Though the number of people knifed in this country is miniscule compared to the number shot in yours. Also, you can kill a lot less people less quickly with a knife.



    So, in essence, if EVERYONE carried a gun, people would be less likely to shoot other people because they'd be scared of getting shot back? That's ridiculous. Allow your libertarianism to be clouded by pragmatism.



    Well, no, secondary school children can't legally own firearms in the US. Just as secondary school children can't legally get drunk in this country... The fact is, it is far easier to get a gun in the USA. Thus, a mentally disturbed teenager is more likely to be able to massacre his class mates extensively and rapidly because of the increased access to guns. In this country, firearms are much more difficult to get hold of, so a similar situation (yes, I know of the Dunblane tragedy) would likely be carried out using a knife or other instrument. No other weapon has the emotional detatchedness of a firearm, or the speed or distance from which is can be used to kill.
    Haha what an argument. I wonder how hes going to come back from that!
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    (Original post by bexicle89)
    Something seriously needs to be done about guns in that country, Obama.
    Considering that the Second Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights, and that the BoR is practically unmodifiable, how does one suggest that "something" could "be done about guns?"

    The reality is that no politician will EVER be able to disarm U.S. citizens. The first policeman who turns up on an American gun owner's doorstep to disarm them will have his ass launched back into the street.

    (Original post by Tory Dan)
    Well perhaps if students were allowed to conceal carry then people would have a chance to stop criminals use take open abuse to 'gun free zones'.
    Indeed. I have only ever heard of ONE intentional shooting at a gun store/show/range. You know, places where there can be anywhere from a few dozen to tens of thousands of firearms at any one time. And nobody gets shot.

    (Original post by Overground)
    Though the number of people knifed in this country is miniscule compared to the number shot in yours. Also, you can kill a lot less people less quickly with a knife.
    Ironically enough, in areas where the gun laws are very strict, the murder rates and gun crime rates are also astronomical. See Washington, D.C. and Chicago for examples.

    In areas where gun laws are remarkably lax, the same rates are much lower. See the whole of Vermont or Kennesaw, Georgia for examples.

    (Original post by Overground)
    In this country, firearms are much more difficult to get hold of, so a similar situation (yes, I know of the Dunblane tragedy) would likely be carried out using a knife or other instrument.
    Riiight... None of these guys seemed to have the difficulty obtaining a firearm of which you speak:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7699077.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/7710195.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/7688826.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7683738.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7675516.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...ds/7700637.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7677403.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/c...re/7713696.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7698956.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/7712601.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/7675696.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/7656192.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/7706767.stm

    All of those news articles are from the past month or so.

    You don't really know how difficult firearms may or may not be difficult to obtain, do you? None of the perpetrators of the crimes above should have had a firearm in their possession, yet all were willing to break the law and buy one on the black market.
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    Only one dead? They're slacking.
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    (Original post by ConservativeNucleophile)
    Considering that the Second Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights, and that the BoR is practically unmodifiable, how does one suggest that "something" could "be done about guns?"
    This is true, that's what I said.

    Ironically enough, in areas where the gun laws are very strict, the murder rates and gun crime rates are also astronomical. See Washington, D.C. and Chicago for examples.

    In areas where gun laws are remarkably lax, the same rates are much lower. See the whole of Vermont or Kennesaw, Georgia for examples.
    Tbh, I don't think that you can compare Chicago and D.C. to Vermont. They are two totally different places, society-wise.

    You don't really know how difficult firearms may or may not be difficult to obtain, do you? None of the perpetrators of the crimes above should have had a firearm in their possession, yet all were willing to break the law and buy one on the black market.
    Firearms are more difficult to obtain in this country but that's not the point really, because if someone really wants a gun, they will do anything to get one.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I most certainly do think I can blame their society. Take legal firearms out of the equation and the United States will still be a massively violent society with huge social divisions and the sort of young people who feel the urge to massacre their classmates. I rather think we should be addressing the issue of how schoolchildren manage to get to this stage - where several of them have now committed massacres and then taken their own lives - without somebody noticing, and help being given. I went to a few schools in my time, and say what you will about them, I certainly think if I had been deeply unhappy then it would have been noticed and hopefully I'd have been given the help I needed, or even prevented from getting to such levels of despair. How many are in this situation who don't take up arms against their friends? Too many, I should think.

    It's incredibly more important to tackle that than to make some ridiculous point about guns - the vast, vast, vast majority of which are in the hands of decent people who use them properly. The obvious point that secondary school children cannot legally own firearms seems to elude you.
    comepletely agree.
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    America's problem is due to a fundamental flaw in it's society and upbringing of children, I don't know what that flaw is but banning guns would not solve America's problems. Switzerland's gun policy is as open as America, and gun owner ship is probably higher in Switzerland per capita, yet they don't have anywhere near the problems of the US or UK.

    There is something about American society and social structure that is causing lots of kids to feel hopeless, seriously depressed and isolated.
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    (Original post by smellslikemarmite)
    Tbh, I don't think that you can compare Chicago and D.C. to Vermont. They are two totally different places, society-wise.
    But by comparing their murder rates, it is patently obvious that draconian gun control does not automatically make people safer.

    Take D.C. as an example. Firearms are more or less banned there (in fact, the system for obtaining a legal firearm in D.C. is fairly comparable to the system in Britain). But has that reduced murder rates there? No. In fact, after D.C. banned handguns (and placed strong restrictions on rifles) in the late 1970's, the murder rate shot up dramatically.

    Glad to see the honourable citizens of the District are being protected by allowing the District Council to trample all over their Constitutional rights!

    (Original post by smellslikemarmite)
    Firearms are more difficult to obtain in this country but that's not the point really, because if someone really wants a gun, they will do anything to get one.
    Duh. Thanks for proving my point...

    Gun control laws only affect law-abiding citizens.
 
 
 
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