Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I keep hearing this. My response is simply that the non-Nazi state I do live in isn't necessarily better than a Nazi one, but just as bad in different ways.
    Lack of habeas corpus, surveillance state, abridged freedom of expression, tyranny of the majority, drug prohibition where the "cure" is worse than the "disease", severely-attacked right and capability of self-defence, rampant socialism... I could go on for hours, literally. I'm happy that I don't live in the Third Reich but I don't subscribe to the notion that modern England is really all that much better.
    What a pity that our tyrannous government was not overthrown by Nazi Germany. I am sure life today would yield much more freedom from a group who's track record included massacring jews, gypsies and homosexuals.

    I do hope you are blonde haired and blue eyed!

    The UK was Germany's prime target, do you think that if every man adopted your attitude and had not gone to war, you would still be typing your political and personal views on this website? To even contemplate that a Nazi Britain would be better then what we have today, is complete insanity.

    Your views are extremely ignorant. Are you beaten to a pulp, just for expressing your political views? Are you forced to vote for a political party in fear that your family will be hurt if you do not? the United Kingdom is far from perfect, but maybe you should think of the people who do not have the freedoms we enjoy.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cpj1987)
    For me, it's because I disagree with war. I appreciate that people died, and that what happened wasn't their fault, but my overall disagreement with war causes me not to be interested.
    sorry what. it has nothing to do with condoning war. what about the men and women who died during the first and second world wars? they had no choice but to fight, to be shipped off to all corners of the world and go through the most traumatic experiences and even die for their country, no choice at all. The silence is about remembering what happened and to never let it happen again. Do you not wear a poppy either?
    you appreciate that they died and it wasnt their fault?? i actually dont know quite what to say to that? do you know anyone who was involved in the 1st / second world wars? i dont think id wear a poppy if it was only for more recent wars - those soldiers decided to go of their own free will - knowing death was a definate possibility. Having family members who were in the second world war and so nearly died during it witnessing the most horrific things and living with it for the rest of their lives i just think nothing should cause anyone to be 'disinterested' in the whole thing for any reason - if it wasnt for them fighting out there theres a definate possibility neither you nor i would even be here.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jennybean)
    I expect other people have quoted this post and I haven't read the whole thread. Nevertheless I have to say how disgusting I find your attitude and how dismayed I am at how many young people seem to share it. The silence is not about remembering people you knew who died in wars. If you've lost someone personally then of course it will have more significance for you but to say that it's just to think about your own personal grief is to miss the point entirely. It's almost the opposite - a silence to feel grateful that you've never had to feel that devastation, that you are lucky enough never to have lost anyone or everyone you love, to have never seen the horror of either of the World Wars or any of the other conflicts in which people have been lost. If you can't have the empathy to imagine what it must have been like to live through World War I or II in this country, at least use the silence to feel thankful that you don't even have to imagine it let alone go through it, and that millions of other people gave their lives so you could be so bloody lucky. It really, really upsets me when people are cavalier about this kind of thing.

    First off, thanks for the rep

    And I totally agree! We had a beautiful silence at school yesterday. The head got all 2200 kids onto the playgrounds, had the last post played as the Legion and old soldiers saluted, and we all shut up for just two minutes.

    Saying that, I find it disturbing that a significant proportion of kids today just don't seem to give a monkey's arse.

    It upsets and angers me. To be honest, there are no other men who I hold in such high esteem than those three remaining veterans. The way the oldest one - 112 - would'nt let his helper lay the wreath, the way he insisted on being lifted so he could show what may have been his last act of respect. So touching. And to think - for 90 years now, each of those brave old soldiers has had to think about all they went through each and every day, you just can't imagine it can you?

    Glad to know there's still people like you out there, Jennybean :o:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I consider the whole ritual to be a silly waste of time; you can respect and remember war dead without having to prove it to the world.

    I can fully understand your dad's reaction, but personally I wouldn't have bothered with arguing about it. No point getting hairy with people who consider that moment to stand for everything.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Fat Controller)
    I consider the whole ritual to be a silly waste of time; you can respect and remember war dead without having to prove it to the world.
    That does not change the fact that you ought to show it to the world, both to demonstrate to British servicemen and women that their going to war is not forgotten, and to remind emerging generations of the sacrifices they made.

    If you will not participate in this 'silly ritual', then you're a disgrace.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Your best bet is to shut up, take the criticism and be silent for a couple of minutes. The silence means a lot to a lot of people and i don't really think it takes a lot of effort to observe. I, for one, am aggravated severely by people who talk through it!
    Offline

    3
    (Original post by L i b)
    That does not change the fact that you ought to show it to the world, both to demonstrate to British servicemen and women that their going to war is not forgotten, and to remind emerging generations of the sacrifices they made.

    If you will not participate in this 'silly ritual', then you're a disgrace.
    I simply do not understand this. Overriding all other personal qualities, no matter how overwhelmingly positive, a person is disgrace because they choose not to take part in a nationalistic ritual? Are you being hyperbolic or do you actually believe that?
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by matt1991)
    First off, thanks for the rep

    And I totally agree! We had a beautiful silence at school yesterday. The head got all 2200 kids onto the playgrounds, had the last post played as the Legion and old soldiers saluted, and we all shut up for just two minutes.

    Saying that, I find it disturbing that a significant proportion of kids today just don't seem to give a monkey's arse.

    It upsets and angers me. To be honest, there are no other men who I hold in such high esteem than those three remaining veterans. The way the oldest one - 112 - would'nt let his helper lay the wreath, the way he insisted on being lifted so he could show what may have been his last act of respect. So touching. And to think - for 90 years now, each of those brave old soldiers has had to think about all they went through each and every day, you just can't imagine it can you?

    Glad to know there's still people like you out there, Jennybean :o:
    I'm really glad to hear from you as well. I too find the bravery and dignity of those veterans immensely and deeply moving. I hope that a few people read this thread and are educated a little.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Even though he reminded you about the silence in a rude way you should've just shut up and been silent for a minute once he reminded you, its really not difficult. Instead you just got into a debate about how you've lost family members in the war, and your dad asked if they had ever been in the war, whats the point in that? Even if you guys don't agree with the silence you should be quiet anyway out of respect for those who do want to take part, its called being a civilised human being. Just like how you be quiet in the cinema or the theatre.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    I think people are misunderstanding when I say my dad argued, my dad likely would of been quiet if he'd known but the guy started being abusive, it wasnt just "oh its a silence be quiet" then my dad starting arguing, the guy started an argument talking about my family being scum before any of us could reply and showing us as negative.

    Me I probably would of been quiet anyway if I known, i disagree with the silence as I dont think 2 minutes of silence does anything I see respecting people as more respectful as a lot of the people who would be silent would say bad things about many soldiers anyway so I think the people who do are hypocritical.

    My dad disagrees with the silence in the way that its forced and sees it as false, and to make someone be silent for your belief well, isnt that disrepectful? how often on here do people complain about people of different religions forcing their views on us then when someone has a different one they complain.

    To say we are uncivilised is pure idocity so it doesnt matter none in my family have been arrested, do huge amounts of charity work from their own pocket including saving lives.

    If someone on the street saw you talking to a friend and told you to shut up as they wanted to walk hearing nothing what would you say.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MittenKrust)
    If someone on the street saw you talking to a friend and told you to shut up as they wanted to walk hearing nothing what would you say.
    the situation is not even comparable.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by OhNO!)
    the situation is not even comparable.
    Why? because society tells you so.

    If I was in my bedroom and no one around and started singing would that be disrespectful since it was supposed to be a 2 minute silence.

    How is a 2 minute silence more a sign of respect and disrespectful if not done when silence in the 24/7 rest of the year isnt?

    I will word this a bit better though.

    I see nothing wrong with people being silent for respect but to try and force others to do so is wrong and to think someone who doesnt is disrespectful is wrong.

    Put it this way, if you have a chav who is abusive to everyone in everyday life but was silent those 2 minutes are they a more respectful person?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by L i b)
    That does not change the fact that you ought to show it to the world, both to demonstrate to British servicemen and women that their going to war is not forgotten, and to remind emerging generations of the sacrifices they made.

    If you will not participate in this 'silly ritual', then you're a disgrace.
    I do participate, but only out of fear of being shaken up by people like you. Does this means, by the standards you've laid out here, I'm no disgrace?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MittenKrust)
    Why? because society tells you so.

    If I was in my bedroom and no one around and started singing would that be disrespectful since it was supposed to be a 2 minute silence.

    How is a 2 minute silence more a sign of respect and disrespectful if not done when silence in the 24/7 rest of the year isnt?

    I will word this a bit better though.

    I see nothing wrong with people being silent for respect but to try and force others to do so is wrong and to think someone who doesnt is disrespectful is wrong.

    Put it this way, if you have a chav who is abusive to everyone in everyday life but was silent those 2 minutes are they a more respectful person?
    Today was remembrance day. All around the country, schoolchildren, office works, veterans, teachers, every kind of person, held a two minute silence in remembrance of those who gave their lives in the name of this country.

    Not holding your peace for those two minutes along with so many other people, is brattish and obnoxious. Especially to do it in a public place where other people are focussing their thoughts on those who have died. I find it incredibly childish. It's not a lot of time which is designated to veterans and, and those who have died, but it is one of the ways this country chooses to show its respect.

    all these questions you're asking are completely irrelevent. I'm not saying that everyone who is silent for those two minutes are immediately a wonderful person, only that those who talk right through the silence, despite being told about it, are being obnoxious, childish and disrespectful.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by OhNO!)
    Today was remembrance day. All around the country, schoolchildren, office works, veterans, teachers, every kind of person, held a two minute silence in remembrance of those who gave their lives in the name of this country.

    Not holding your peace for those two minutes along with so many other people, is brattish and obnoxious. Especially to do it in a public place where other people are focussing their thoughts on those who have died. I find it incredibly childish. It's not a lot of time which is designated to veterans and, and those who have died, but it is one of the ways this country chooses to show its respect.

    all these questions you're asking are completely irrelevent. I'm not saying that everyone who is silent for those two minutes are immediately a wonderful person, only that those who talk right through the silence, despite being told about it, are being obnoxious, childish and disrespectful.
    Excuse me I think that believing that not doing it is brattish obnoxious and childish and disrespectful.

    If you read instead of judging you would of seen that had we known we would of been quiet.

    And if someone came up to you and was rude and obnoxious would you just say "oh I agree with you" especially after they insulted your entire family which is disrespectful.

    How is 2 minutes disrespectful since if the person didnt argue and we realised we would have been quiet and thereby wasnt the person disrespectful by speaking.

    The cafe was empty apart from a few people(less than 5) so by abusing us arent they breaking that peace.

    Why is the 2 minute silence better than respect every other minute of every other day, if I was disrepectful then but respectful in those 2 minutes how is that more valid than the hours or days of respect every other minute and day of the year?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MittenKrust)
    Excuse me I think that believing that not doing it is brattish obnoxious and childish and disrespectful.

    If you read instead of judging you would of seen that had we known we would of been quiet.

    And if someone came up to you and was rude and obnoxious would you just say "oh I agree with you" especially after they insulted your entire family which is disrespectful.

    How is 2 minutes disrespectful since if the person didnt argue and we realised we would have been quiet and thereby wasnt the person disrespectful by speaking.

    The cafe was empty apart from a few people(less than 5) so by abusing us arent they breaking that peace.

    Why is the 2 minute silence better than respect every other minute of every other day, if I was disrepectful then but respectful in those 2 minutes how is that more valid than the hours or days of respect every other minute and day of the year?
    "Some guy came up to us and told us to be quiet as it was a silence."

    the guy came up and told you to be quiet, because it was a silence. rather than facetiously asking "why", you should have just shut up and it would have been over and done with.

    it's not MORE valid, but this is two minutes of silence specifically to remember veterans, and those who have died. it's how this country chooses to show their respect on remembrance day - if you don't adhere to this whilst in a public place, you are being disrespectful. people all around the country manage to shut up for the two minutes, and focus their thoughts on something other than themselves - why can't you? honestly, it's ridiculous.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by OhNO!)
    "Some guy came up to us and told us to be quiet as it was a silence."

    the guy came up and told you to be quiet, because it was a silence. rather than facetiously asking "why", you should have just shut up and it would have been over and done with.

    it's not MORE valid, but this is two minutes of silence specifically to remember veterans, and those who have died. it's how this country chooses to show their respect on remembrance day - if you don't adhere to this whilst in a public place, you are being disrespectful. people all around the country manage to shut up for the two minutes, and focus their thoughts on something other than themselves - why can't you? honestly, it's ridiculous.
    So its because society says so, and its ridiculous because I dont do so.

    Hmm strange a few days ago on here I was told off because I said I smoked a few puffs of a joint and it was bad because its illegal and someone drinking and loud is ok since its legal.

    Problem with society today is its so uptight, I would be happy to be silent if it was less formal and not seen to be some disgusting evil if I dont, but the mentality that if I dont then im some evil person is wrong, it seems I have to conform to everything society says I have to.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    I simply do not understand this. Overriding all other personal qualities, no matter how overwhelmingly positive, a person is disgrace because they choose not to take part in a nationalistic ritual? Are you being hyperbolic or do you actually believe that?
    It is not nationalistic, but yes, I do believe that. It would make you a cad and a tosser.

    (Original post by The Fat Controller)
    I do participate, but only out of fear of being shaken up by people like you. Does this means, by the standards you've laid out here, I'm no disgrace?
    I certainly feel it considerably contributes towards your respectability, yes.
    Offline

    3
    (Original post by MittenKrust)
    So its because society says so, and its ridiculous because I dont do so.

    Hmm strange a few days ago on here I was told off because I said I smoked a few puffs of a joint and it was bad because its illegal and someone drinking and loud is ok since its legal.

    Problem with society today is its so uptight, I would be happy to be silent if it was less formal and not seen to be some disgusting evil if I dont, but the mentality that if I dont then im some evil person is wrong, it seems I have to conform to everything society says I have to.
    Authoritarians are the majority pretty much everywhere. You just have to live with it and take solace in the fact that no matter what they may say or do, you know that you define what's right or wrong, not them and their rules.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MittenKrust)
    So its because society says so, and its ridiculous because I dont do so.

    Hmm strange a few days ago on here I was told off because I said I smoked a few puffs of a joint and it was bad because its illegal and someone drinking and loud is ok since its legal.

    Problem with society today is its so uptight, I would be happy to be silent if it was less formal and not seen to be some disgusting evil if I dont, but the mentality that if I dont then im some evil person is wrong, it seems I have to conform to everything society says I have to.
    blah, blah, blah, whinge, whinge. boo hoo, you don't want to do what society says, who cares. it's only when this horribly teenage attitude affects OTHER people that I am bothered.

    you don't want to follow the "rules of society", but by ignoring the rules in this instance, you are acting in an offensive and disrespectful manner to other human beings who have given a lot, and even died, for selfless reasons.

    you don't get to pick and choose the rules all the time, and sometimes, you have to spend two minutes of your time in a way you might rather not - hopefully because you have a respect for the larger meaning behind those two minutes.

    you seem absolutely blase about the fact that people are being silent FOR A REASON, and only bothered about how this situation affected you and your family in that one moment. get over it.
 
 
 
The home of Results and Clearing

1,082

people online now

1,567,000

students helped last year
Poll
How are you feeling about GCSE results day?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.