Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    With all the WW1 and WW2 games, films, books etc. I don't think there's much chance of us forgetting in the near future.

    Return to Castle Wolfenstein taught me to also remember the undead, who tragically died in the war.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by OhNO!)
    blah, blah, blah, whinge, whinge. boo hoo, you don't want to do what society says, who cares. it's only when this horribly teenage attitude affects OTHER people that I am bothered.

    you don't want to follow the "rules of society", but by ignoring the rules in this instance, you are acting in an offensive and disrespectful manner to other human beings who have given a lot, and even died, for selfless reasons.

    you don't get to pick and choose the rules all the time, and sometimes, you have to spend two minutes of your time in a way you might rather not - hopefully because you have a respect for the larger meaning behind those two minutes.

    you seem absolutely blase about the fact that people are being silent FOR A REASON, and only bothered about how this situation affected you and your family in that one moment. get over it.
    blah blah blah, whinge whinge whinge nice way of looking at things when someone disagrees with you.

    Lets see how far you will get in life.

    Its nice to see that you didnt read the fact that had we realised we would of been silent anyway.

    Dont you understand that had the guy been more polite about what happened instead of launching a disgusting attack against my family then things would be fine.

    Nope you just saw that we were talking, and somehow the guy who was rude and abusive isnt to us.

    Um didnt the guy who get abusive with us TALK oh egads hes talking during a silence, isnt he then disrepectful?

    Stop being a moron and understand that we respect peoples views on wanting to be quiet but to force us to their way of thinking is terrible.

    Lol at the neg rep I just got, appartantly im stuck up and unable to see things from others points of views, but hold on wasnt the person arguing with us because we didnt have the same views of them!? How does that work.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MittenKrust)
    Why? because society tells you so.

    If I was in my bedroom and no one around and started singing would that be disrespectful since it was supposed to be a 2 minute silence.

    How is a 2 minute silence more a sign of respect and disrespectful if not done when silence in the 24/7 rest of the year isnt?

    I will word this a bit better though.

    I see nothing wrong with people being silent for respect but to try and force others to do so is wrong and to think someone who doesnt is disrespectful is wrong.

    Put it this way, if you have a chav who is abusive to everyone in everyday life but was silent those 2 minutes are they a more respectful person?
    Yes it means the "chav" has respect for those who have died for the country and can sometimes think and reflect instead of just being a thug as you said they were most of the time.

    And the reason why it is a different situation is because it is not "someone wanting silence in the street", it is a country coming together to remember and respect the millions of men who died for it.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    Authoritarians are the majority pretty much everywhere. You just have to live with it and take solace in the fact that no matter what they may say or do, you know that you define what's right or wrong, not them and their rules.
    It is 2minutes, a tiny and insignificant amount of time.

    Yet, the silence means an enormous amount to a great deal of people who feel it is a way of showing respect for those who died fighting against fascism. Continuing to talk, in a public place, is a rude, unnecessary and hurtful thing to do. Its not a matter of "authoritarians", its a matter of showing a basic level of respect for those around you, at a negligible cost to yourself. There is no point in rebelling just for the sake of it.

    (Original post by MittenKrust)
    So its because society says so, and its ridiculous because I dont do so.

    Hmm strange a few days ago on here I was told off because I said I smoked a few puffs of a joint and it was bad because its illegal and someone drinking and loud is ok since its legal.

    Problem with society today is its so uptight, I would be happy to be silent if it was less formal and not seen to be some disgusting evil if I dont, but the mentality that if I dont then im some evil person is wrong, it seems I have to conform to everything society says I have to.
    Legality is different entirely and involves society making policy choices.

    The reason that people took offence to you not obeying the silence is not because "society says so", but because it is disrespectful. Its not about whether the two minutes make a difference, its about making reasonable (and tiny- its only two minutes) allowances for the deeply held values of the people around you who believe that it is important.
    If you didn't realise that the silence was going on, thats fair enough, but the reasonable response would have been to apologise for causing offence, regardless of whether you think the whole practice is silly. If you did this, those calling you 'disgusting' would clearly be in the wrong. But, instead it appears that you chose to attack their deeply held respect for this silence, thereby attacking their deeply held beliefs thereby going someway to justifying that kind of attack (though I can't comment on whether it actually was justified, probably it was not, but thats besides the point)

    What you fail to understand is it is NOT an argument about whether the practice is meaningful, it is NOT an argument about whether you should obey things because society says do. Its about whether you should respect the values of others in your community; this generally needs to be answered affirmatively.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Some people in this thread make me sick. Even if you disagree with war, you can at least remember those that were conscripted and died, they still gave there lives for there country. Or if thats to brutal for you, what about air raid victims? Surely you can afford 120 seconds of quiet contempation.

    As for the OP, get off your high horse and realise that others around you wanted to use that silence o remember the dead, not to hear your (from what it sounds like) highly strung family twitter on for two minutes. I offer 3 words of advice; get over yourself.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Yuffie)
    Yes it means the "chav" has respect for those who have died for the country and can sometimes think and reflect instead of just being a thug as you said they were most of the time.

    And the reason why it is a different situation is because it is not "someone wanting silence in the street", it is a country coming together to remember and respect the millions of men who died for it.
    For the first time in TSR history, we have something to agree on :eek:
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    It is 2minutes, a tiny and insignificant amount of time.

    Yet, the silence means an enormous amount to a great deal of people who feel it is a way of showing respect for those who died fighting against fascism. Continuing to talk, in a public place, is a rude, unnecessary and hurtful thing to do. Its not a matter of "authoritarians", its a matter of showing a basic level of respect for those around you, at a negligible cost to yourself. There is no point in rebelling just for the sake of it.


    Legality is different entirely and involves society making policy choices.

    The reason that people took offence to you not obeying the silence is not because "society says so", but because it is disrespectful. Its not about whether the two minutes make a difference, its about making reasonable (and tiny- its only two minutes) allowances for the deeply held values of the people around you who believe that it is important.
    If you didn't realise that the silence was going on, thats fair enough, but the reasonable response would have been to apologise for causing offence, regardless of whether you think the whole practice is silly.
    I think its misunderstood, I dont agree with it but dont see it as silly and respect their opinion but the person started giving us abuse for not having the same as theres so by apologising to them its apologising for having a different idea on things which is against freedom of choice.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MittenKrust)
    blah blah blah, whinge whinge whinge nice way of looking at things when someone disagrees with you.

    Lets see how far you will get in life.

    Its nice to see that you didnt read the fact that had we realised we would of been silent anyway.

    Dont you understand that had the guy been more polite about what happened instead of launching a disgusting attack against my family then things would be fine.

    Nope you just saw that we were talking, and somehow the guy who was rude and abusive isnt to us.

    Um didnt the guy who get abusive with us TALK oh egads hes talking during a silence, isnt he then disrepectful?

    Stop being a moron and understand that we respect peoples views on wanting to be quiet but to force us to their way of thinking is terrible.

    Lol at the neg rep I just got, appartantly im stuck up and unable to see things from others points of views, but hold on wasnt the person arguing with us because we didnt have the same views of them!? How does that work.
    the way you and your family acted was completely rude and disrespectful, since it was a silence for war veterans and soliders who had lost their lives! Someone ASKED you to be silent, and you weren't silent, you talked back to them rather than just shutting up.

    If I could hear people talking during the two-minutes silence, I would probably ask them to be quiet.

    all you're doing is whinging and whinging, but you don't seem to care one tiny bit about that meaning behind that two minute silence. it is a mark of respect. you're just whinging about yourself non-stop, and not pausing to think about WHY people were being silent or WHY people got upset like they did. do you think it could maybe be a reason other than they were just nasty, angry people who were very wude to you, poor wittle fing? that it actually means something to them, and to many, many other people?

    yes, let's see how far I get in life, with my sense of common decency and respect for those who have acted in a heroic and selfless manner. what awful horrible traits.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AWZC)
    For the first time in TSR history, we have something to agree on :eek:
    I know. I saw your name and avatar while reading down and thought "...oh no" then realised you were saying something decent
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AWZC)
    Some people in this thread make me sick. Even if you disagree with war, you can at least remember those that were conscripted and died, they still gave there lives for there country. Or if thats to brutal for you, what about air raid victims? Surely you can afford 120 seconds of quiet contempation.

    As for the OP, get off your high horse and realise that others around you wanted to use that silence o remember the dead, not to hear your (from what it sounds like) highly strung family twitter on for two minutes. I offer 3 words of advice; get over yourself.
    Im still scratching my head to see things, how is talking about how my day went with family and essay due in highly strung.

    Isnt the guy coming over starting an argument more disruptive and loud than a family sitting in a corner near no one else bothering.

    You would have to come up to us to hear our conversation.

    One of the things we mean when we say about the two minute silence why does two minutes any other time of the year mean nothing? what difference does it make? isnt it better to think about the dead for longer any other 2 minutes of the year if it amounts to hours over the year?

    The thing I believe is people see the 2 minutes as justification for their sort of sins and so they can say they did, whats the point of doing it to make yourself feel better if the rest of the year its not on your mind?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by OhNO!)
    the way you and your family acted was completely rude and disrespectful, since it was a silence for war veterans and soliders who had lost their lives! Someone ASKED you to be silent, and you weren't silent, you talked back to them rather than just shutting up.

    If I could hear people talking during the two-minutes silence, I would probably ask them to be quiet.

    all you're doing is whinging and whinging, but you don't seem to care one tiny bit about that meaning behind that two minute silence. it is a mark of respect. you're just whinging about yourself non-stop, and not pausing to think about WHY people were being silent or WHY people got upset like they did. do you think it could maybe be a reason other than they were just nasty, angry people who were very wude to you, poor wittle fing? that it actually means something to them, and to many, many other people?

    yes, let's see how far I get in life, with my sense of common decency and respect for those who have acted in a heroic and selfless manner. what awful horrible traits.
    Sigh its banging my head against a wall here, Its not that they asked us to be silent it was the way they DID IT. launching into an attack calling us names like scum and disgusting isnt a good way to ask someone to be quiet is it?

    Cant you get that through your thick, stupid highly strung skull and get off your moral high horse.

    Dont you understand if they came up to us smiling and polite we would of been silent anyway but to have someone have blatant disregard for your family is horrible. If it wasnt a silence and some random person came up and started to call you disgusting things wouldnt you be offended?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    The point is if you don't want to observe a silence you shouldn't have to. Other people choose to do so and that's fine until they impose their choices on others.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    The mentality shown by the father of the OP is just "I'm special so these kinds of conventions don't apply to me". More and more people think this way as the sense of community dies away.


    He's not a bad person but what's the point in potentially offending people just by ignoring the fact there's a silence.


    I'm sure there are more and more who don't think these signs of respect and recognition should apply to them. Pretty much soon, we won't give a **** if a kid dies in front of us in the street. "Whatever, doesn't apply to me...".


    Is it really so hard for people these days to show signs of respect and recognition or is it just too embarassing to show that you respect/care about someone or something other than yourself?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MittenKrust)
    Sigh its banging my head against a wall here, Its not that they asked us to be silent it was the way they DID IT. launching into an attack calling us names like scum and disgusting isnt a good way to ask someone to be quiet is it?

    Cant you get that through your thick, stupid highly strung skull and get off your moral high horse.

    Dont you understand if they came up to us smiling and polite we would of been silent anyway but to have someone have blatant disregard for your family is horrible. If it wasnt a silence and some random person came up and started to call you disgusting things wouldnt you be offended?
    OhNo's right when she says you haven't asked yourself why these people may be so offended, you're just concerned with how it's affected you. Perhaps their reaction was a little out of hand, but then perhaps it's an emotional time, and it's only 2 minutes isn't it? Not much time to get your point across...

    People don't have your family's background info, and in that moment they don't care, they react to what they see, and what they saw was people heartlessly ignoring a silence cherished by many throughout the nation. All the things you say about the legitimacy of the 2 minutes silence is completely and utterly irrelevant.


    (Original post by Blátönn)
    The point is if you don't want to observe a silence you shouldn't have to. Other people choose to do so and that's fine until they impose their choices on others.
    No, actually that isn't the point here. Please try again.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    I slept through both silences :nod: Surely that's the right way to do it? :p:
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MittenKrust)
    Cant you get that through your thick, stupid highly strung skull and get off your moral high horse.

    Dont you understand if they came up to us smiling and polite we would of been silent anyway but to have someone have blatant disregard for your family is horrible. If it wasnt a silence and some random person came up and started to call you disgusting things wouldnt you be offended?
    This is about morals though. You're trying to establish that your father's morals are worthier than those of the people who approached you.

    I know it's hard for people these days but put yourself in the place of those other people: they know nothing about you and can only assume. If I see someone shouting at a woman quite aggressively and it's looking like it could turn violent, I "assume" they're being abusive but I know very little about the situation. I may approach the guy and tell him to cool it but that's very likely to offend him: either because he's an idiot and doesn't want anyone telling him not to behave like one or potentially, I don't understand the full situation. So yes it was a brash, hurried decision to think you're scum but really what's the point of arguing when told that and trying to explain that somehow you're "special" and these rules don't apply to you?

    You could at least have stayed quiet to show that you respected the decision (because after all, apparently you hadn't noticed there was a 2-minute silence despite the fact these things are usually announced...) and THEN gone over to explain your case if you felt that you wanted to explain your situation, apologise for not having noticed there was a 2-min silence...
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Notforthefirsttime)
    OhNo's right when she says you haven't asked yourself why these people may be so offended, you're just concerned with how it's affected you. Perhaps their reaction was a little out of hand, but then perhaps it's an emotional time, and it's only 2 minutes isn't it? Not much time to get your point across...

    People don't have your family's background info, and in that moment they don't care, they react to what they see, and what they saw was people heartlessly ignoring a silence cherished by many throughout the nation. All the things you say about the legitimacy of the 2 minutes silence is completely and utterly irrelevant.




    No, actually that isn't the point here. Please try again.
    Again people are misunderstanding me/us I already said I respect their views but they were offensive to us thereby we argued it was the person who started the argument that thought of themselves and not respected us.

    Plus by arguing they caused a loud disruption that lasted longer than the 2 minutes if you understand, the conversation with parents likely would have either stopped or been slow had the person not argued with us or been polite.

    I think people are taking me talking about my views as an argument with them when its not its just my views, im not saying their views are nonsense but thats the impression they give me what they think of mine.

    By arguing the person bothered other people who were wanting silence, my parents talking in a corner where people couldnt hear them wouldnt affect the people wanting silence but the one complaining loudly was thereby the person arguing breaks the silence for many if you get what I mean.

    Everyone has their points of view on things which is great but to disregard others is wrong I mean its been put across but by my parents talking it disregarded others beliefs but isnt the person butting in and causing a argument disregarding ours?

    But I understand, I have bought poppys in the past and worn them proudly and given cash to the people who go around asking for money for such but I think its an overreaction to say that by not being silent(yet not being loud)is like the end of the world, I do understand that its important to them just like religion is to people even if im not religious as it brings hope and such for people.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MittenKrust)
    Again people are misunderstanding me/us I already said I respect their views but they were offensive to us thereby we argued it was the person who started the argument that thought of themselves and not respected us.

    Plus by arguing they caused a loud disruption that lasted longer than the 2 minutes if you understand, the conversation with parents likely would have either stopped or been slow had the person not argued with us or been polite.

    I think people are taking me talking about my views as an argument with them when its not its just my views, im not saying their views are nonsense but thats the impression they give me what they think of mine.

    By arguing the person bothered other people who were wanting silence, my parents talking in a corner where people couldnt hear them wouldnt affect the people wanting silence but the one complaining loudly was thereby the person arguing breaks the silence for many if you get what I mean.

    Everyone has their points of view on things which is great but to disregard others is wrong I mean its been put across but by my parents talking it disregarded others beliefs but isnt the person butting in and causing a argument disregarding ours?

    But I understand, I have bought poppys in the past and worn them proudly and given cash to the people who go around asking for money for such but I think its an overreaction to say that by not being silent(yet not being loud)is like the end of the world, I do understand that its important to them just like religion is to people even if im not religious as it brings hope and such for people.
    I do get the feeling you're ignoring the crux of this. I know you said that you respect their views, I never said that you didn't.

    Ok, they shouldn't have gone to the extent they did in abusing your family, but in emotional situations people will go to understandable extremes. They obviously thought that you were being rude on purpose, but wasn't it only when your family argued back that it exacerbated the situation to the extent that the 2 minutes was wasted?

    The thing is for lots of people reacting like that isn't an overreaction at all, those two minutes really do mean a lot to many people. I think if you wanted to argue whether there are better ways of respecting veterans then a new thread would be needed. But for now, this is the popular means for the nation to respect those who died, and it's been established like that for quite a while.

    Better luck next year eh?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Notforthefirsttime)
    I do get the feeling you're ignoring the crux of this. I know you said that you respect their views, I never said that you didn't.

    Ok, they shouldn't have gone to the extent they did in abusing your family, but in emotional situations people will go to understandable extremes. They obviously thought that you were being rude on purpose, but wasn't it only when your family argued back that it exacerbated the situation to the extent that the 2 minutes was wasted?

    The thing is for lots of people reacting like that isn't an overreaction at all, those two minutes really do mean a lot to many people. I think if you wanted to argue whether there are better ways of respecting veterans then a new thread would be needed. But for now, this is the popular means for the nation to respect those who died, and it's been established like that for quite a while.

    Better luck next year eh?
    I wasnt meaning you I was meaning the basis of many replies about us being disrespectful, and its how you say a lot of people dont see it as an overreaction, doest mean it isnt though but because so many people believe it isnt.

    I dont think people wanting to be silent is an overreaction nor them being a bit uptight but some people go to massive extremes.

    Had the person just been polite and not in our face my parents would of been like "oh all right then" and been quiet and polite and been quiet.

    I think the silence is a good thing for the majority of people but not for everyone and by not doing it doesnt mean the person is some cruel person as they may respect the fallen in their own ways.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    It is not nationalistic, but yes, I do believe that. It would make you a cad and a tosser.
    A moment of silence can easily be nationalistic. It depends what you choose to think about.

    (Original post by L i b)
    I certainly feel it considerably contributes towards your respectability, yes.
    How would me taking part in a ritual I openly call silly make me more respectable in your eyes?
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.