Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DanielWhit)
    Nice to see a reasoned argument there.
    Fine. It's overrated drivel since it's predictable, boring and childish. Oh, and every swinging **** on the planet seems to worship it, and most things that have universal acclamation are generally disappointments, and this one fits that rule, along with Princess Diana and the Mighty Boosh.

    All of this is, of course, my humble opinion and you are more than free to disagree with me.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    I think he's chosen that description instead of "working class".
    Heh, I don't think most musical theatre is aimedat the working class tbh.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Acaila)
    Define "culturally stunted"
    This is a silly analytic tactic in debate. Didn't we outgrow positivism like 100 years ago? :flute:

    (Original post by Drewski)

    And the 10 Oscars awarded to West Side Story were an accident, too?
    No, not by accident, but given how many Oscars Titanic received, I'd hardly use that as a measure of cultural value, or, in fact, the quality of the cultural engagement of the viewer.

    MB
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    PS Reviewer
    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    I think he's chosen that description instead of "working class".
    That's a strong accusation to make
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DanielWhit)
    I wouldn't call myself "stupid", and would like to express that musicals are a very good combination of several different art forms if performed and constructed well (those are acting, dancing, singing along with creativity).
    Yes, the height of Gesamtkunstwerk!

    MB
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by she)
    Les miserable is aimed at children then?
    Aye, and Sweeney Todd! :p:
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Musicals are for anyone that enjoys them.

    I doubt very many people take them seriously, anyway. At least, not the 'fun' ones.

    Personally, I quite like dark musicals. Just because song is employed, doesn't make it childish. Music can have a very profound effect
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
    Ouch



    Seriously, could you elaborate? I seem to have missed whatever has prompted this reaction. Is it musicals themselves or just people's reactions to it?
    It's very much about the nature of the engagement with it. I mean I have no problem with them existing, just as I have no problem with Channel 5 existing. It's more the issue of them being taken seriously, as works of art, or a something we should waste our time discussing.

    MB
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
    That's a strong accusation to make
    Not really. I'd say a lot of working class people are "culturally stunted" through reasons not within their control. I.E financial, geographical and social. But this is a completely different debate so I don't want to delve further into that here.

    I've always looked at a lot of musicals as a bit of fun, rather than a truly cultural performance. I'm inclined to agree with the OP, if the word children was indeed changed to culturally stunted.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by musicbloke)
    This is a silly analytic tactic in debate. Didn't we outgrow positivism like 100 years ago? :flute:


    No, not by accident, but given how many Oscars Titanic received, I'd hardly use that as a measure of cultural value, or, in fact, the quality of the cultural engagement of the viewer.

    MB
    And that was a silly attempt at evasion when called on an unsubstantiated vague claim. I think it's quite important to define what we are debating before we go off on one.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
    Music can have a very profound effect
    Musical examples from musicals please, that can have a profound effect. I bet I can provide 20 examples from serious music, for adults, that out-do any one of yours, and show your tastes to be both nondescript and childish.

    MB
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by musicbloke)
    It's very much about the nature of the engagement with it. I mean I have no problem with them existing, just as I have no problem with Channel 5 existing. It's more the issue of them being taken seriously, as works of art, or a something we should waste our time discussing.

    MB
    If Bartes found adverts for soap worth analysing, who are you to suggest we can't study shows like Hair? :rolleyes:
    Offline

    2
    How very cutting and controversial of you.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Acaila)
    And that was a silly attempt at evasion when called on an unsubstantiated vague claim. I think it's quite important to define what we are debating before we go off on one.
    Ok, what I mean by culturally stunted is a disengagement from art, from critique, and from an ability to engage with society. A belief in the importance of things that are by their very nature (i.e. on both a mimetic and a formal level) underdeveloped and lacking in any aesthetic or intellectual value. The belief that pleasure is a reasonable end in itself with a disregard for history or the true complexity of subjectivity. Ascribing value to objects outside of a critical discourse. Comprendez?

    MB
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    PS Reviewer
    (Original post by musicbloke)
    It's very much about the nature of the engagement with it. I mean I have no problem with them existing, just as I have no problem with Channel 5 existing. It's more the issue of them being taken seriously, as works of art, or a something we should waste our time discussing.

    MB
    Well I do think they are worth discussing (am undecided about to what extent they could be viewed as works of art). I personally wouldn't talk about it in the same way that I would talk about classical music though (I'm assuming this is what has irritated you?) :nah:

    Perhaps once a full debate has been had and a summary needs to be made, there could be less of the stupid though?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Acaila)
    If Bartes found adverts for soap worth analysing, who are you to suggest we can't study shows like Hair? :rolleyes:
    Yes, and Adorno found use in analysing a horoscope column. This doesn't mean that these objects aren't for the culturally stunted.

    MB
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    They're not just for children, they're for retarded children. Same goes for pantomimes. "Oooo, let's get the audience to join in!!!!" No, let's boil you all in oil.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
    Well I do think they are worth discussing (am undecided about to what extent they could be viewed as works of art). I personally wouldn't talk about it in the same way that I would talk about classical music though (I'm assuming this is what has irritated you?) :nah:

    Perhaps once a full debate has been had and a summary needs to be made, there could be less of the stupid though?
    I personally think stupidity has a large part to play in this discussion.

    MB
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by musicbloke)
    Musical examples from musicals please, that can have a profound effect. I bet I can provide 20 examples from serious music, for adults, that out-do any one of yours, and show your tastes to be both nondescript and childish.

    MB
    Hardly. Music is interpreted individually, that's part of the magic of it. Just because it doesn't have a profound effect on you doesn't mean it won't have a profound effect on someone else. I remember watching an orchestra play Autumn from the four seasons. Someone in front of me was crying, the person sitting to my left was smiling serenely, and I was appreciating.
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    PS Reviewer
    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    Not really. I'd say a lot of working class people are "culturally stunted" through reasons not within their control. I.E financial, geographical and social. But this is a completely different debate so I don't want to delve further into that here.

    I've always looked at a lot of musicals as a bit of fun, rather than a truly cultural performance. I'm inclined to agree with the OP, if the word children was indeed changed to culturally stunted.
    Sorry, I phrased that badly. I was saying that's it's a strong accusation to make against MB, rather than it being a strong accusation against the working class
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you rather give up salt or pepper?
    Useful resources

    Articles:

    TSR wiki music section

    Quick link:

    Unanswered music threads

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.