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    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    I don't actually know the answer to this, but if any English tax money goes toward paying Scottish higher education then I'd have to find the practice objectionable.
    By that post I can only assume that you have no idea how tax money is spent in Britain.
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    (Original post by adilmorrison)
    For EU (excluding English) and Scottish students, yes...
    (Original post by zav)
    Only for EU citizens excluding English. I really think that it takes the **** to be honest.
    Welsh and Northern Irish too, as far as I'm aware. It's not just the English and Scots than make up the UK.

    (Original post by hobnob)
    But I think the point is that both the Scottish and the English government are free to choose independently.
    There's no Engllish government, though, which is the issue really.
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    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    I don't actually know the answer to this, but if any English tax money goes toward paying Scottish higher education then I'd have to find the practice objectionable.
    All tax money raised in Scotland apart from council tax goes to the UK Treasury's central pot. It is then dished out from there. Taxes are not separated as we are run as one country.
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    (Original post by River85)
    Welsh and Northern Irish too, as far as I'm aware. It's not just the English and Scots than make up the UK.
    True, thanks for the correction
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    During A-Level Geography we had to do some module on the Scottish.
    It works out that in Scotland its something like £1400 per person is spent each year (in terms of health, education, communications, infrastrucure etc) accross the board, yet it's £800 for English people. But, due to population differences the English people pay more taxes but recieve less. Hope that makes sense
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    (Original post by SillyFencer)
    By that post I can only assume that you have no idea how tax money is spent in Britain.
    You'd be right, I've never done practical economic research on any country, just theoretical and ideological. I honestly don't know if any English money goes toward Scottish higher education institutions. Does it? If so, it doesn't seem unreasonable to find the practice objectionable, as it does mean that money from English taxpayers would be being spent on something that has no returns for them. If it doesn't, then obviously it wouldn't be a problem.

    There's no need for condescension when I made it perfectly clear that I'm ignorant on the subject in question, by the way.

    Edit - Thank you, zav. Do you happen to know how money is distributed when it leaves the central treasury?

    Incidentally, SillyFencer, I do happen to have practical knowledge of the UK's political system, and as a result of that, I must inform you that there is no English Parliament to turn to, only a UK Parliament, and as a result of the "West Lothian question" Scottish MPs would be eligible to vote on whether English students would get free tuition at English universities, whereas with education as a devolved issue, English MPs have no vote on whether Scottish students get free tuition at Scottish universities. That's hardly equality, is it?
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    (Original post by zav)
    All tax money raised in Scotland apart from council tax goes to the UK Treasury's central pot. It is then dished out from there. Taxes are not separated as we are run as one country.
    I think that's the issue that many have, supposedly we are, yet there are different policies for Scottish and non-Scottish students
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    (Original post by River85)
    There's no Engllish government, though, which is the issue really.
    Ah, right - thanks for correcting me, then.
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    (Original post by zav)
    True, thanks for the correction
    You're welcome. If there's one thing I'm good at it's being pedantic and annoying :p:

    I know it has already been mentioned, but students from the rest of the UK still pay only half.

    I was having this same discussion with my grandmother the other week. We were discussing my postgrad tuition fees (different to undergrad, I know, but she doesn't understand bless her) and then led her into her usual rant about the government and how it's "ridiculous". In Scotland they don't pay....if she was in Scotland and needed a care home she'd get one free but she can't here as she has a private pension........and on it went.

    Don't blame the Scottish parliament, it's not their fault if they've got their priorities right.

    But I don't really care, I didn't mind paying my way (or, rather, my parents didn't mind :p: ). But I started pre-top up fees so kept to the old pre-3k rules. Not that I'm bragging, just probably would feel different if I entered in 2006 or after.
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    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    You'd be right, I've never done practical economic research on any country, just theoretical and ideological. I honestly don't know if any English money goes toward Scottish higher education institutions. Does it? If so, it doesn't seem unreasonable to find the practice objectionable, as it does mean that money from English taxpayers would be being spent on something that has no returns for them. If it doesn't, then obviously it wouldn't be a problem.

    There's no need for condescension when I made it perfectly clear that I'm ignorant on the subject in question, by the way.

    Edit - Thank you, zav. Do you happen to know how money is distributed when it leaves the central treasury?

    Incidentally, SillyFencer, I do happen to have practical knowledge of the UK's political system, and as a result of that, I must inform you that there is no English Parliament to turn to, only a UK Parliament, and as a result of the "West Lothian question" Scottish MPs would be eligible to vote on whether English students would get free tuition at English universities, whereas with education as a devolved issue, English MPs have no vote on whether Scottish students get free tuition at Scottish universities. That's hardly equality, is it?
    There is no 'English money'. There is British money, out of which the Scottish Parliament is given a budget which they may do with as they please.
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    (Original post by SillyFencer)
    There is no 'English money'. There is British money, out of which the Scottish Parliament is given a budget which they may do with as they please.
    There is English money before it reaches the UK's coffers. It's what English taxpayers pay. If the terms of its distribution to the Scottish government allow for spending on things that are actively negatively discriminatory towards people in the rest of the UK who are still paying for them, then I don't see how it's unreasonable to take issue.
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    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    There is English money before it reaches the UK's coffers. It's what English taxpayers pay. If the terms of its distribution to the Scottish government allow for spending on things that are actively negatively discriminatory towards people in the rest of the UK who are still paying for them, then I don't see how it's unreasonable to take issue.
    So really, what you are taking issue with is the fact that we have a government capable of making such decisions?
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    (Original post by SillyFencer)
    So really, what you are taking issue with is the fact that we have a government capable of making such decisions?
    Well, I do take issue with discriminatory practised based on place of residence, but then I'm a borderline-anarchist and don't really believe in national borders so that's kind of a given. But yes, practically, what I rather disagree with here is the half-finished nature of devolution as it stands. I don't oppose a Scottish government having the right to dictate benefits for Scottish students as such, I just think that there ought to be an English equivalent capable doing the same for English students, and tighter controls on spending from the central treasury to ensure that everyone gets a fair share. I also think that EU students getting the benefits but British non-Scots not is utterly retarded.
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    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    Well, I do take issue with discriminatory practised based on place of residence, but then I'm a borderline-anarchist and don't really believe in national borders so that's kind of a given. But yes, practically, what I rather disagree with here is the half-finished nature of devolution as it stands. I don't oppose a Scottish government having the right to dictate benefits for Scottish students as such, I just think that there ought to be an English equivalent capable doing the same for English students, and tighter controls on spending from the central treasury to ensure that everyone gets a fair share. I also think that EU students getting the benefits but British non-Scots not is utterly retarded.
    There's a reason for that too - we can go there and study for free. We cannot go to England to study for free. As for the rest of your points, your argument has just went back to the start - it's not fair that Scots get something if you can't. Actually, it's perfectly fair that we get it, what's not fair is that you don't - and that's a completely different argument.
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    It's the consolation prize for being born Scottish.
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    If you don't want to pay for university, go and campaign for it. As River says, it's not our fault our government and indeed our country has its priorities right.
    Aside from that, it would be hideously unworkable in the current climate to make Scottish unis free for other UK students. Given the choice of going to Edinburgh for free or...say Exeter for several thousand pounds a year, where are people going to choose to apply? Completely overloading the Scottish higher education system and no doubt putting a hell of a lot of Scottish students out of university places. Or face introducing quotas on nationality, which would still have you people shouting about discrimination :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by AustralAlien)
    I wish I was Scottish
    Being Scottish won't cut it, only living in Scotland for a period immediately before you apply. There are plenty of people with connections to Scotland I've encountered who have to pay fees.
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    (Original post by deadflappin)
    Well I a British National Overseas (BNO) passport for being born in HK under British rule but Britain doesn't really acknowledge us as british. Not saying I am but it'd be nice if i can get discount off uni in the UK and live in the UK. I feel bad for those who only hold a BNO and luckily I have 3 different passports =D
    So it doesnt really matter, I have to pay full fees but i was just wondering
    Well, it's more about residency and so forth than citizenship or nationality status.

    Personally I'm of the opinion we should treat our overseas nationals rather better: even our citizens in territories like the Channel Islands are effectively treated more like foreigners than people from other European Union countries.
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    (Original post by rangers_mad)
    What would Welsh students pay?
    £1500 if you are either Welsh or Scottish studying in a Welsh University.
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    (Original post by Acaila)
    If you don't want to pay for university, go and campaign for it. As River says, it's not our fault our government and indeed our country has its priorities right.
    Aside from that, it would be hideously unworkable in the current climate to make Scottish unis free for other UK students. Given the choice of going to Edinburgh for free or...say Exeter for several thousand pounds a year, where are people going to choose to apply? Completely overloading the Scottish higher education system and no doubt putting a hell of a lot of Scottish students out of university places. Or face introducing quotas on nationality, which would still have you people shouting about discrimination :rolleyes:
    I think it rather unfairly discriminates against English universities too. As a student resident in Scotland, I would not get the money the Scottish Executive would otherwise have spent on me if I choose to go to an English university. Why? As far as I'm concerned, it's a thoroughly insipid ploy to stop Scotland's 'brain drain' by effectively bribing us to stay here.

    Yet another good reason why the ridiculous and thoroughly unaffordable concept of free higher education ought to be abolished here.
 
 
 
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