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Feminism forced gentlemanly manners into hiding? Watch

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    I actually hate what feminism has done for men in the sense we have to make them feel like crap. I don't understand why opening a door is patronising, or anything like that, i still think it's sweet. I really think feminists go too far.
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    (Original post by Atlas of The World)
    Laudable gentlemanly manners seem to have become frowned upon, strangely, largely because feminists seem to hate having doors held open for them. Likewise, Joan Bakewell wrote in a recent Times article that selling sex is a legitimate way to earn money and is 'liberation for women', following the argument that if men act as dogs, why can't women? So, have the rare beauties disappeared?
    As much as I hate to say it, I think chivailry is on its last legs

    Killed off by angry feminists and some of the appallingly behaved young men today, it is a shame to say that a gentleman has become something of a rarity.

    Such a shame as well, for all of us girls who actually like gentlemanly behaviour
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    I wish I knew more 'gentlemanly' guys, a lot of them just seem to be dicks these days.
    Personally, I'm all for doing things for myself.. it's just what I'm used to and I don't expect guys to do things for me.
    If they do keep doors open or other such things, though.. then hey, I'll be surprised but I wouldn't complain.
    I think it's polite and lovely Just not often done anymore.
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    For what it's worth, I'm female and I open doors for bloody well everybody and fully 90% of people couldn't give a damn.

    So yer, I say democracy has forced people not acting like ***** into hiding. Or something.
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    I think the whole holding the door open thing is taking feminism to extremes. I mean, I agree with some facets of feminism, but if a guy held a door open for me, or offered to carry my bag, I wouldn't start shouting at him for making my gender look inferior to his.

    The only thing that I don't like is when guys offer to pay for everything (i.e. meals), but not because it makes him appear more dominant, but rather because I don't want him to think I owe him anything (financially or otherwise), especially in the beginning of a relationship.
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    Hey, maybe some blokes don't want to be expected to hold doors open for women... I think generally some things that feminists talk about are blown out of proportion. It's just an example of expected gender roles in relationships and interaction. It's not like there's a whole feminist political party with "banning people opening doors for each other" in its manifesto. (There probably is now I've said that).

    Really. this feminist bashing is so old.
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    Mmm, I take the tube everyday and still see men offering the empty seat to women first, which most refuse. The only time men don't offer is when they see a pregnant woman. Women tend to jump up too quickly so the men don't even get a chance to glance up from their London Lites. Or maybe they're scared the woman's just fat...
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    (Original post by Andrew_2006)
    What does it actually mean to be a feminist though? You mean you believe in female equality?

    Well sorry to break the bubble, but women have had the same rights for a long time, if not superior rights.

    Now it seems so called 'feminists' are looking for superiority not equality..

    Maybe i'll write a book one day 'the pendulum swings back'.
    As long as women earn far less than men, as long as rape is used as a tool of war, as long as women make up a miniscule proportion of high ranking political and business jobs globally, as long as female circumcision exists, as long as girls are forbidden from attending school, as long as the veil exists (woah, controversial, sorry but it's my viewpoint), as long as Dads don't have equal custody rights, then the gender equality struggles are not over.
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    (Original post by Overground)
    As long as women earn far less than men, as long as rape is used as a tool of war, as long as women make up a miniscule proportion of high ranking political and business jobs globally, as long as female circumcision exists, as long as girls are forbidden from attending school, as long as the veil exists (woah, controversial, sorry but it's my viewpoint), as long as Dads don't have equal custody rights, then the gender equality struggles are not over.
    i was going to post this. beat me to it
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    (Original post by Atlas of The World)
    Surely it is just respect, denoting that women should be respected. It makes a woman more important, not inferior.
    thats the whole point: its should be equal. not one sex in a cage on a pedestal and the other sweeping the floor around her, taking care of all the important things.

    personally i would never hold a door open for a girl or anything like that. but then i do hate women.
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    (Original post by Atrixa)
    I agree with you, and I'm a girl. I don't mind opening it myself, but I just think it's nice.

    To be honest, though. I don't expect equality and chivalry. I'd hold doors open for anyone. Especially if they're carrying something heavy...
    Exactly, I would hold the door open for anyone or anything else just because its nice and its polite.
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    (Original post by Atlas of The World)
    Laudable gentlemanly manners seem to have become frowned upon, strangely, largely because feminists seem to hate having doors held open for them. Likewise, Joan Bakewell wrote in a recent Times article that selling sex is a legitimate way to earn money and is 'liberation for women', following the argument that if men act as dogs, why can't women? So, have the rare beauties disappeared?
    Who said that?! I love having doors held open for me. But not because I'm a woman, because it's a nice thing to do for someone, and I like everyone to do nice things for everyone regardless of sex or gender or any other arbritrary social constructs. And I don't want to swap men behaving a certain way towards me for compromised attitudes and opportunities in society. Good manners do not need to be mixed up with gender domination issues. They should have absolutely nothing to do with being male or female and I think that's a point that so many anti-feminists miss completely.
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    (Original post by Overground)
    As long as women earn far less than men, as long as rape is used as a tool of war, as long as women make up a miniscule proportion of high ranking political and business jobs globally, as long as female circumcision exists, as long as girls are forbidden from attending school, as long as the veil exists (woah, controversial, sorry but it's my viewpoint), as long as Dads don't have equal custody rights, then the gender equality struggles are not over.
    Women do earn slightly less than men overall but there is a reason aside from their gender for why this is so: they are less likely to accept higher authority because of family, less likely to move for their career, they work part time, they work in less dangerous jobs, men work longer weeks. Any evidence you can provide that women have been discriminated against is purely anecdotal, and I don't deny there are cases of it but it isn't wide spread. Feminism will never erradicate rape in war, it's just an impossibilty. Feminism will never have any break throughs in Muslim states either. Feminism has run its course and it's now time to stop choosing sides and be egalitarian. Men have just as many things that make them unequal: negative discrimination, prostate cancer funding, custody rights (as you said), getting ****** in divorces etc. Feminism implies you've chosen a side.
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    Silence Elipsis, or I will beat you to death with your own over-produced Billy Talent CDs.
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    As far as feminism is an attempt to highlight and understand inequalities in relation to sex and gender with the positive aim of seeking to correct, or at least challenge, any unjust forces in this regard, then I'm very much a feminist.
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    (Original post by Nyet)
    Silence Elipsis, or I will beat you to death with your own over-produced Billy Talent CDs.
    I don't even listen to them anymore, don't really have the time or even care to change my profile. I'm still a member of Labour ffs!
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    As far as feminism is an attempt to highlight and understand inequalities in relation to sex and gender with the positive aim of seeking to correct, or at least challenge, any unjust forces in this regard, then I'm very much a feminist.
    Definitions of egalitarian on the Web:
    :rolleyes: Feminism was useful when women were really unequal but it's time for both sides to get a look in on a fairer society.
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    I think the term feminism often gets confused with the more radical extreme version of it. Feminism to most women just means women being treated fairly and able to stand on the same platform of influences, and social status, as their male colleagues. I have held the door open, and given my seat to plenty of young and old women in my life and none of them have scorned at me or given me a negative look. And I'm sure they all consider themselves feminist to some degree.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Definitions of egalitarian on the Web:
    :rolleyes: Feminism was useful when women were really unequal but it's time for both sides to get a look in on a fairer society.
    As usual, addressing the wrong point and wrong about that anyway, lol
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    As far as feminism is an attempt to highlight and understand inequalities in relation to sex and gender with the positive aim of seeking to correct, or at least challenge, any unjust forces in this regard, then I'm very much a feminist.
    Inequality is sometimes a grey area in this context though. For example, women can get maternity leave regardless of the impact it may have on her workplace. Men however cannot. Women are considered 'mothers' and hence given full power over abortion regardless if the father/husband may want to keep the child. And yet, the men are expected to pay "child support" for a child they themselves do not want. Where is the "equality" in that? Being cheeky for a moment, women are allowed to wear trousers at their work place yet watch a man being fired if he came to work in a skirt
 
 
 
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