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    (Original post by one2three_abc)
    Even though private schools contribute to the wider community. My school allows the use of sports facilities for other schools, the campus is used for Kings Camps, some teachers go to primary schools and teach them in a 'fun' way, other teachers have lectures available to people from out of the school, we raise tens of thousands of pounds for charity every year.
    Not to mention the fact that parents of privately educated children are paying twice, for their own child and for another child who goes to a state school. They could be greedy and take their guaranteed place at a state school, or go to a grammar school, but instead they vacate the place by going to a private school, which incidently requires the child to obtain better results than in the 11+ test to get in...so it's the clever kids whose parents have enough money or are willing to sacrifice to give their children what is essentially a better education. And the school provides full scholarships for less wealthy people who couldn't afford to pay the school fees but are clever enough to get a place.

    At the end of the day private schools provide, on average, a better education, whatever way you spin it. Everyone pays for their education, some people just pay twice.
    If the private sector is really that 'giving' surely it won't mind giving a little bit more? After all if private schools lose their charity status they wont have to waste their time providing (I use the term losely as often state schools have to PAY for the renting of facilities from private schools) for the plebs and can spend its money on better causes e.g. making their pupils even MORE privileged
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    Having spent 12 years in a private school & now in my first year at a state comp, I'm all for them. Private schools give you better life preparation because you have to be polite & well behaved & you learn to get on with people better.
    At my current school some of the younger kids are really rude, shouting & screaming, trying to push in in the corridors, bus queue, fighting e.c.t. Where is that going to get them in life?

    Also, at my old school everyone worked to achieve the best grades possible, they didn't think "oh all I need is a C so I wont work hard."
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    I understand your points completely but you have to be polite, well behaved and meet different people at state schools!

    I guess it depends on which school you go to - our comp pushes everyone hard; a C is not enough if you are capable of doing better.

    When you talk about these kids that are polite, well behaved etc in private schools - do you think that they are different than other kids of the same age in state schools? In most cases it's not about the school they go to, but their background...
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    (Original post by Amy***)
    If the private sector is really that 'giving' surely it won't mind giving a little bit more? After all if private schools lose their charity status they wont have to waste their time providing (I use the term losely as often state schools have to PAY for the renting of facilities from private schools) for the plebs and can spend its money on better causes e.g. making their pupils even MORE privileged
    Private schools don't need to give any more, they give enough already. Private schools losing their charity status will harm the local community more than the private school itself.
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    (Original post by jelly1000)
    Having spent 12 years in a private school & now in my first year at a state comp, I'm all for them. Private schools give you better life preparation because you have to be polite & well behaved & you learn to get on with people better.
    At my current school some of the younger kids are really rude, shouting & screaming, trying to push in in the corridors, bus queue, fighting e.c.t. Where is that going to get them in life?

    Also, at my old school everyone worked to achieve the best grades possible, they didn't think "oh all I need is a C so I wont work hard."
    My point exactly. Most people prefer to scrape their A-Levels - at my old school there was more of a work ethic and I think the competition was good. No-one would be satisfied with a C in the subjects they'd chosen. Private schools by their stretching of pupils' abilities inevitably produce better students more capable of dealing with a competitive job market out there.
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    Theres no such thing as 'positivie' discrimination. when Mandela got into power in SA, did he install a regime of apartheid discriminating against the whites? No, because he wanted to abolish discrimination, not replace it with discrimination the other way. Its the same in this scenario. I don't understand how some people can argue in favour of positive discrimination. The thought of Oxbridge discriminating in favour of private school pupils I'm sure you'll say is a sickening idea (and I agree) but you'd be happy to se discrimination the other way? What kind of a double standard is that? By definition, descrimination is never fair.
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    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    There is nothing wrong with it, however what is annoying is universities expecting the same grades from state school kids as private school kids.
    But when you consider that the tests are standardised they should expect the same grades from anyone because they want the best people on their courses
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    i am afraid that this is simple economics. in a free trade society a service shall be provided if there are people who demand and people are willing to provide it. By stopping this service you are merely going to damage the economy as a whole.
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    People on here who advocate closing private and grammar schools sicken me. They really would rather everyone had a crap education, as long as we're all equal. Socialism just makes everyone equally poor, people.
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    (Original post by running_with_scissors)
    My point exactly. Most people prefer to scrape their A-Levels - at my old school there was more of a work ethic and I think the competition was good. No-one would be satisfied with a C in the subjects they'd chosen. Private schools by their stretching of pupils' abilities inevitably produce better students more capable of dealing with a competitive job market out there.
    I go to the local comp and all students are stretched to their greatest potential. My AS grades were BCCCE and I was made to retake everything because they know I am perfectly capable of getting ABBBB. (Obviously the E was needing to be retaken anyway lol)
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    (Original post by tw7055)
    i am afraid that this is simple economics. in a free trade society a service shall be provided if there are people who demand and people are willing to provide it. By stopping this service you are merely going to damage the economy as a whole.
    So banning the selling of guns in this country is damaging to the economy as a whole?

    A free trade society need operate within the ambit of the law; and not always is the banning of something damaging to the economy. There are other extraneous factors which need be considered within free trade other than consumer demand.
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    (Original post by Officer Dibble)
    People on here who advocate closing private and grammar schools sicken me. They really would rather everyone had a crap education, as long as we're all equal. Socialism just makes everyone equally poor, people.
    Infact Socialism is really rather fair. It's equal misery for the many, not just the few.
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    (Original post by xobile)
    Around 7 percent of school pupils are privately educated. Around 40 percent of Oxbridgers are from private schools.
    What percentages actually apply though?
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    (Original post by running_with_scissors)
    My point exactly. Most people prefer to scrape their A-Levels - at my old school there was more of a work ethic and I think the competition was good. No-one would be satisfied with a C in the subjects they'd chosen. Private schools by their stretching of pupils' abilities inevitably produce better students more capable of dealing with a competitive job market out there.
    Everyone at my old school, regardless of GCSE results, are working hard as hell from what I've heard. Where as too many people at my current school seem to think they can get by with GCSE levels of work. I'm fed up of hearing teachers moan at the class for still treating things like its GCSE. And your right, competiton is very good. Those who didn't get all A*'s & A's who stayed on feel disapointed with their results and are therefore motivated to work hard at A-Level. Where as at my current school without the competition people seem happy to coast.
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    (Original post by Jason Sparks)
    So banning the selling of guns in this country is damaging to the economy as a whole?

    A free trade society need operate within the ambit of the law; and not always is the banning of something damaging to the economy. There are other extraneous factors which need be considered within free trade other than consumer demand.
    yes but you have to consider that education is an investment in the future prosperity of the economy
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    (Original post by Jason Sparks)
    Infact Socialism is really rather fair. It's equal misery for the many, not just the few.
    Very true. However, there is a difference between equality and fairness.
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    (Original post by Jason Sparks)
    Infact Socialism is really rather fair. It's equal misery for the many, not just the few.
    exactly, everyone is just willing to let things happen. Capitalism encourages people to push themselves to achieve greater things and they then prosper and can gain wealth to buy goods and services.

    Aspiration to greatness is key.
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    (Original post by one2three_abc)
    Even though private schools contribute to the wider community. My school allows the use of sports facilities for other schools, the campus is used for Kings Camps, some teachers go to primary schools and teach them in a 'fun' way, other teachers have lectures available to people from out of the school, we raise tens of thousands of pounds for charity every year.
    Not to mention the fact that parents of privately educated children are paying twice, for their own child and for another child who goes to a state school. They could be greedy and take their guaranteed place at a state school, or go to a grammar school, but instead they vacate the place by going to a private school, which incidently requires the child to obtain better results than in the 11+ test to get in...so it's the clever kids whose parents have enough money or are willing to sacrifice to give their children what is essentially a better education. And the school provides full scholarships for less wealthy people who couldn't afford to pay the school fees but are clever enough to get a place.

    At the end of the day private schools provide, on average, a better education, whatever way you spin it. Everyone pays for their education, some people just pay twice.
    I'm sorry, but I'm really not buying this whole idea of parents of privately educated students 'paying twice'. I think it's rather offensive and naive to suggest that these parents are doing state-schoolers a great favour by giving their children an advantage through a (most likely) better education than mine as a state-schooler. I agree with the general idea you have, saying that a place at a private school paid for by a family who can afford it frees up one for a state-schooler. Yes. I also think this obviously applies to State/private healthcare also.

    I also understand from what others have said on this thread that private schools clearly do not always live up to their stereotypical image, and that they do fund many students' education through bursaries, scholarships, and more. However, there is a large handful of extremely bright individuals from my school year - but I doubt any of us would really consider to apply for a scholarship at one of the private schools in our town. OK, you could say it is our fault for not taking the initiative if we're interested in going to them, but you also have to see that if you come from an average state school and from an average-income background that private school never really comes into consideration for you. It's just never really seen as the 'norm'. This makes me really angry.

    'Some people just pay twice'. Hmm. I would be careful what you say!

    Just as a final point, I am not entirely against private schooling yet I AM against the sense of inequality it does give society. Although I do agree that if people have worked hard for their money they should be free to spend it as they wish (within reason, obviously...).

    When first considering applying to Oxbridge, I felt inferior at times because of the educational backgrounds other applicants would have which would be advantageous over mine. But thankfully there is a lot of encouragement for people from all backgrounds to apply which is of course greatly positive.

    Although I have to say that pictures of private schools...the typical perfectly mowed lawns and beautiful, picturesque settings with old buildings does make me feel inferior coming from my state school background. This makes me sad also but I guess it is life!

    Finally, I agree with all of those who say State education needs to be improved. However I think it is more at a lower level, such as having stricter attitudes to discipline; which could have a much greater effect than any new policy introduced.

    Sorry for rant, but I had a lot to say!! Any thoughts?

    EDIT: Apologies to the person I quoted if I sound really angry!! Just felt empassioned by this debate, haha. I suppose it is easy to misinterpret the first point of yours I highlighted...
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    (Original post by jelly1000)
    Everyone at my old school, regardless of GCSE results, are working hard as hell from what I've heard. Where as too many people at my current school seem to think they can get by with GCSE levels of work. I'm fed up of hearing teachers moan at the class for still treating things like its GCSE. And your right, competiton is very good. Those who didn't get all A*'s & A's who stayed on feel disapointed with their results and are therefore motivated to work hard at A-Level. Where as at my current school without the competition people seem happy to coast.
    i did the opposite to you. i went to state school and then to private boarding school. Best decision i ever made. Everyone at my old school coasted along, including me. At boarding school everyone strove to achieve more. An A wasnt enough, there was competition to get the highest UMS scores etc. As a result everyone achieved more. Not only that but we did a whole load of extra curricular stuff that state schools never encourage which has made me a far more rounded member of societ
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    (Original post by Jason Sparks)
    Infact Socialism is really rather fair. It's equal misery for the many, not just the few.
    And that sounds just great. It also means no progress. It may be equal but it certainly isn't fair; it holds people back. Socialism denies people the opportunity to make their lives better, to progress. A lot of people have worked really hard so that they can send their children to private school or to avoid misery.
 
 
 
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