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    whatever u know what blue light meant, it wasnt as if you didnt understand. u were just trying to make that another part of the argument for no reason
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    (Original post by Deyn_08)
    I'm "poor" and act nothing like that girl on TV
    quite the opposite actually.
    What, poor as in your father is dead and your mother doesn't work due to depression, and you live in a high rise council flat, and you're so poor that you have to get a loan in order to buy paint? So poor that you can afford to own a computer to let everybody know just how poor you are? I call ********.
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    Oh no! Somebody found out that some people are poor but there are still people poorer than them!

    You'd better be grateful for not being the poorest person in the country you classist snob :hmmm:!
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    in that definition you posted it didnt say anything about apologising? and people wouldnt expect her to apologise or having money, they would expect an apology or the belief that she is superior to others because she is lucky enough to have it
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    Having to apologise to what you were born into - which is what being grateful to circumstance effectively is - is a ridiculous notion when what you are born into is nothing particularly special.
    its not about being apologetic its about being positively grateful. Im grateful for my health its not an apologetic feeling but moreover a positive feeling of immense gratitude. Its all well and good saying its nothing special, but the rich girls circumstances were something amazing for the poor girl.
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    (Original post by piehead)
    in that definition you posted it didnt say anything about apologising? and people wouldnt expect her to apologise or having money, they would expect an apology or the belief that she is superior to others because she is lucky enough to have it
    Being an apologetic is not the same thing as actually apologising.

    Being forced into believing something because you were born into it is a most vile form of collectivism.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    That people ought to be grateful for being born into the middle region of the wealth gap suggests that any amount of wealth above zero is something to be 'grateful' for and therefore something undesirable to have.
    Something to be grateful for is undesirable? I don't follow...
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    (Original post by Bluelight)
    its not about being apologetic its about being positively grateful. Im grateful for my health its not an apologetic feeling but moreover a positive feeling of immense gratitude. Its all well and good saying its nothing special, but the rich girls circumstances were something amazing for the poor girl.
    And the poor girl's circumstances were something amazing for the starving Ethiopian or the Chinese coolie - what is your point? That some people are arbitrarily richer than others means that they have to be grateful and other people don't?
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    (Original post by Haft_Hasht_Shish)
    So, I (sadly) wasn't the only one who smirked when the rich kid got mugged..?
    Why is that something to smirk about? It's a sad state of affairs that there exist places in our country where getting mugged is a daily threat and even more so if you don't fit the demographic of that area.
    It only fuels prejudice - look at her anger and her views before she was mugged compared to after.
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    On a different note, I think Alice's mom is the real anti-hero of the show.
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    u said 'having to apologise' not 'being an apologetic'. no one is asking her to change her speech or mannerisms. just her 'superiority' belief because it is unfounded, she is not superior for having rich parents, she is lucky.

    do u yourself believe in superiority of wealth?
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    And the poor girl's circumstances were something amazing for the starving Ethiopian or the Chinese coolie - what is your point? That some people are arbitrarily richer than others means that they have to be grateful and other people don't?
    Seriously you're splitting hairs here, trying to see science where there is none. If you are wealthy at a level significantly above what is typical in the society you live in there is no harm in appreciating your good fortune.
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    I didn't grow up in appalling conditions like Natalie has. Yet - I know people between me and her who are less well off than me but more than her. Do they have to be grateful? Hell, do I? Where do you set your arbitrary line saying where people have to be grateful for being born into wealth and people don't?

    Because if you took the world on an entire line then Natalie would be very grateful indeed. This is not splitting hairs. Does she not have free education (up to the age of 15, in her case) - or free healthcare? Or free money? At least some job prospects? Clean water? A place to sleep? Enough money for food and cigarettes and alcohol? Does she live in fear of being killed for her race or religion every day?

    Do you think the majority of the world has that? This is not splitting hairs; it is remarkable that you think national borders come into this.
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    is not only the rich that should be grateful as someone already demonstrated, you can be grateful for health or wealth or anything. people with only a little money should be grateful because there are some people with none. no one is attacking people with money...just the superiority thing
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    okay so bagration do u believe in superiority of wealth?
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    (Original post by Electric_Dreams)
    Whaaat? She's ugly in my opinion! but hey, whatever floats your boat... :p:
    Well i'd say shes's more attractive than you if thats you in your profile pic, not saying you are unattractive though.

    She had been mugged so i think thats part of the reason she made those comments about state schools and benefit claimants when the interviewer caught up with her,
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    And the poor girl's circumstances were something amazing for the starving Ethiopian or the Chinese coolie - what is your point? That some people are arbitrarily richer than others means that they have to be grateful and other people don't?
    Yes! its preferable if they are grateful than if they are not, if they assume the latter then its going to look bad on them, think thats fair price to pay for being born into wealth. Arbitarily is possibly the worst word you could use, because as that programme showed the consequences of wealth on the same street were anything but arbitary. Don't know if you are playing devils advocate or are geuinely such an inconsiderate person, looking at your profile though one things for certain, im immensely grateful im not some tory gone wrong.
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    (Original post by sweetstar91)
    Both are completely not the norm.. obviously picked outside the average cross-section of society just for TV
    Not the norm compared to what? Given that privately schooled children make up only 7% of all children at school, then yes, she's not the norm. Is she normal compared to her closest peer group? Absolutely. Alice seemed to be just like many private schooled girls I've met - I've heard similar mutterings from half of the people I lived with in Halls last year for ***** sake - and these are people with the benefit of 3-4 extra years maturity, more "life experience" and "cultural education", apparently.
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    (Original post by piehead)
    u said 'having to apologise' not 'being an apologetic'. no one is asking her to change her speech or mannerisms. just her 'superiority' belief because it is unfounded, she is not superior for having rich parents, she is lucky.
    Precisely. You think somebody cannot hold a belief merely because they are born into wealth. How utterly ridiculous. It is simply a coincidence that Natalie is humble - if the poor person they had chosen was not so humble and the rich people very grateful, I wonder whether you would be saying the reverse of what you are now.

    (Original post by piehead)
    do u yourself believe in superiority of wealth?
    Not particularly - there are too many parvenus for that.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    I didn't grow up in appalling conditions like Natalie has. Yet - I know people between me and her who are less well off than me but more than her. Do they have to be grateful? Hell, do I? Where do you set your arbitrary line saying where people have to be grateful for being born into wealth and people don't?

    Because if you took the world on an entire line then Natalie would be very grateful indeed. This is not splitting hairs. Does she not have free education (up to the age of 15, in her case) - or free healthcare? Or free money? At least some job prospects? Clean water? A place to sleep? Enough money for food and cigarettes and alcohol? Does she live in fear of being killed for her race or religion every day?

    Do you think the majority of the world has that? This is not splitting hairs; it is remarkable that you think national borders come into this.
    Of course Natalie is better off than your average Ethiopean but that is a completely unreasonable reference group to use. Natalie and Alice both carry British passports and fall under the jurisdiction of the British government. In theory both are guaranteed equal opportunities in Britain and the EU by law. Yet somehow one has ended up at the top and the other at the bottom of this food chain. Alice leads a life of luxury relative to the average Briton whereas Natalie leads one of privation. That can be the only meaningful comparison here.
 
 
 
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