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    Yeh, so true..!! I use 'Mum'...
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    what do u mean by wealthy people who act like poor people??
    'what are you trying to get me to say'...well its pretty clear from 'admit you're a snob'
    u believe in the superiority of the english speaking world...its pretty clear your beliefs and views are pretty snobbish, maybe you are not aware of that yet. its not the language/wealth/location/ of someone that defines their superiority
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    (Original post by KwungSun)
    What philanthropy? I'm not saying one is morally superior to the other or that rich people are bad and/or don't deserve their wealth. The point is that Alice has done absolutely nothing to arrive at her current situation. She has had the good fortune of being born into a family that was in turn favoured by circumstance, yet feels that everyone who is not as well off as her is "lazy" (ignoring of course the fact that if everyone were as well off as her she would cease to be "upper middle class" ).
    From what I have gathered you are trying to change people's mannerisms because you think they ought to be more grateful for what they have and respectful to people without their start in life.

    That sounds philanthropic to me.

    Am I misunderstanding you?
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    (Original post by piehead)
    what do u mean by wealthy people who act like poor people??
    The most extreme possible example is the "King of the Chavs", that guy who won the lottery. David Beckham is another good example. Work down from there.

    (Original post by piehead)
    'what are you trying to get me to say'...well its pretty clear from 'admit you're a snob'
    u believe in the superiority of the english speaking world...its pretty clear your beliefs and views are pretty snobbish, maybe you are not aware of that yet. its not the language/wealth/location/ of someone that defines their superiority
    lol, ok - I'M A SNOB - does that somehow change anything?
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    From what I have gathered you are trying to change people's mannerisms because you think they ought to be more grateful for what they have and respectful to people without their start in life.

    That sounds philanthropic to me.

    Am I misunderstanding you?
    I am less concerned with respect for poor people than with an appreciation for the amount of luck that is required to be well off. Even if one believes that poverty is down to laziness and stupidity, it is still little more than luck to be born industrious and intelligent.
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    shes not even rich - she lives in clapham and her dads an accountant or somthing

    shes trying to play up to something too its so annoying, i dont have any bones about her opinions or anything but she would be fine if she wasnt playing up to her 'role'
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    (Original post by KwungSun)
    I am less concerned with respect for poor people than with an appreciation for the amount of luck that is required to be well off. Even if one believes that poverty is down to laziness and stupidity, it is still little more than luck to be born industrious and intelligent.
    Well, I agree. It's not like I advocate shouting about wealth or pretending to be something I'm not. What I am opposed to in the line of thinking of you and the other people in this thread - from my interpretation of it, which may well be defensive - is that this is a one way street that rich people in our society ought to be grateful but poor people ought not to be, despite the fact that having the luck to be born British gives you a far greater standard of living than most of the world.
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    no one has said poor people shouldnt be grateful
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    And you've not said once that they both ought to be grateful. To be truthful it wasn't the concept of gratitude I disagreed with it was that only one person out of the two ought to be grateful. I am annoyed (mildly) because people seem to believe that Natalie is the poorest a person can be in the world. What has changed if you move to Africa? Distance, which is meaningless - the wealth divide would still be as much of an enemy of the left if the people lived 500 mi, not 500 yards, away from each other - national borders which make no physical distinction between people, and language.
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    yes i have said that actually, ive said people with a little bit of money should be thankful because some people have none and that people should be thankful of other things they have got as well eg good health.
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    On this thread? Because I can't find it.
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    the film wasnt particularly well done tbh, nothing happened, the film-maker had so many things he could have explored! i hoped it for it to be better tbh
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    Well, I agree. It's not like I advocate shouting about wealth or pretending to be something I'm not. What I am opposed to in the line of thinking of you and the other people in this thread - from my interpretation of it, which may well be defensive - is that this is a one way street that rich people in our society ought to be grateful but poor people ought not to be, despite the fact that having the luck to be born British gives you a far greater standard of living than most of the world.
    No of course it's not a one way street. Of course Natalie can consider herself lucky not to be a North Korean rice farmer. But there are two important points here:

    1. No-one pretends that Natalie and a North Korean rice farmer are on equal footing. Yet a lot of people seem to think that people like Natalie just need to get their act together, stay in school, go to university and they will catch up with Alice in less than a generation.

    2. Natalie is not deriding North Korean rice farmers for not living in London council estates (at least not on TV). She does not think they are too lazy to be on benefits in the UK. Alice, however, thinks people like Natalie simply enjoy daytime television too much to buy themselves 6 bedroom houses. The need for gratitude is not so much a function of wealth as it is a function of being oblivious to one's good fortune.
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    (Original post by KwungSun)
    No of course it's not a one way street. Of course Natalie can consider herself lucky not to be a North Korean rice farmer. But there are two important points here:

    1. No-one pretends that Natalie and a North Korean rice farmer are on equal footing. Yet a lot of people seem to think that people like Natalie just need to get their act together, stay in school, go to university and they will catch up with Alice in less than a generation.

    2. Natalie is not deriding North Korean rice farmers for not living in London council estates (at least not on TV). She does not think they are too lazy to be on benefits in the UK. Alice, however, thinks people like Natalie simply enjoy daytime television too much to buy themselves 6 bedroom houses. The need for gratitude is not so much a function of wealth as it is a function of being oblivious to one's good fortune.
    That wasn't what I meant by one way road, but I suppose it was stupid to use something that could have meant something else so easily. What I meant was is reverse classism acceptable? If, for example, Natalie's mother would have started talking about class warfare and how she hates posh people, would that be acceptable because she has an 'excuse' to be angry?

    I don't disagree with what you are saying on this post, anyway.

    Note how the film-maker put Alice in all the incriminating situations and Natalie in all the sympathetic ones.
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    (Original post by piehead)
    yes i have said that actually, ive said people with a little bit of money should be thankful because some people have none and that people should be thankful of other things they have got as well eg good health.
    who should they be grateful to? out of interest
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    yep on this thread
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    (Original post by loafer)
    who should they be grateful to? out of interest
    We just spent 10 pages arguing about this lol.
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    (Original post by piehead)
    yep on this thread
    So you did. Must have missed it.
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    god...we have been though this. sometimes you dont have to be thankful to a particular person. i am grateful i am healthy when so many people are dying. i am grateful i have a tap in the kitchen, some people have never drank clean water. its not that i have to thank someone in particular, u can still recognise that you have it far better than some other people and be grateful
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    That wasn't what I meant by one way road, but I suppose it was stupid to use something that could have meant something else so easily. What I meant was is reverse classism acceptable? If, for example, Natalie's mother would have started talking about class warfare and how she hates posh people, would that be acceptable because she has an 'excuse' to be angry?
    Tricky question. I suppose a lot of people have this "protect the weak" instinct that gives makes them interpret comments like that in a somewhat skewed manner. Strictly speaking they should of course be equally acceptable though (which includes not at all of course).
 
 
 
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