This discussion is closed.
Howard
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#141
Report 14 years ago
#141
(Original post by randdom)
Fair enough, I personally don't think I could make many generalistions about white english people because there is so much variation.
Of course they're all different. No two people are the same. But on the whole I should have thought it possible to identify common traits.

"Do white English people like eating curry"?

It would be daft to say; "yes, ALL, white English people like eating curry" but dafter still to say "I couldn't possible comment on behalf of white English people because everyone is different"
0
Sarky
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#142
Report 14 years ago
#142
(Original post by Howard)
Of course I don't know every black person and of course some are real grafters, really apply themselves, aspire, and suceed. I raise my glass to each of them.

But, that doesn't mean my "generalization" isn't very well deserved "generally" so I make absolutely no apology. Can you honestly put your hand on your heart and say "we (blacks) are really doing the best "generally" we can and applying ourselves"? Because if you can't do that (and I don't think you honestly can "generally" then I think you should be looking closer to home for reasons for black failure rather than blaming whites and moaning about the slave trade.
I and nobody in my close circle of friends/family blame "whites" for the way things are. But "Blacks" is a very loose term. Do you mean black caribbean people? Black african people? Attitudes among different black people are very different. Black african people do better than caribbeans in education. I can't speak for my whole ethnic group. The black people i know work hard. My grandmother came over from Jamaica in the 50's and worked her arse off. I've never heard her blame white people for anything. If you want to do well, you get off your arse and work hard. Thats what i've done, thats why i'm in medical school now. I know black people who do **** all, and blame everything. Usually its poverty, and yes they do blame white people. However there are very few black people that i know like that.
0
Sarky
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#143
Report 14 years ago
#143
(Original post by vienna95)
i) technik suggested that, 'if you ever meet one[a racist], ask"

ii) you replied that, "If i meet a racist person the chances are they won't want to talk to me"

now assuming that we all ask a racist the same question, why would they be more likely to not respond to you?

your answer is "i base talking to people as having a conversation with someone, they were just shouting insults."

this is not relevant to the question. why would a racist be more likely to respond to me than you?
I would have thought it was obvious. Not more likely to talk to you than me because i don't know you, or anything about you. But the racist people I have encountered would be much more likely to talk to a white person who they feel they have a common identity (at least in colour) with than me, who they have preconceptions about.

That was my point.
0
randdom
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#144
Report 14 years ago
#144
(Original post by Howard)
Of course they're all different. No two people are the same. But on the whole I should have thought it possible to identify common traits.

"Do white English people like eating curry"?

It would be daft to say; "yes, ALL, white English people like eating curry" but dafter still to say "I couldn't possible comment on behalf of white English people because everyone is different"
True but you could say some white english people eat curry and some don't.
0
attacksushi
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#145
Report 14 years ago
#145
(Original post by Sarky)
On my course, 2% of the students are black british.
2001 census results:

In England and Wales, 1.1 per cent of people are Black Caribbean, 0.9 per cent are Black African and a further 0.2 per cent are from Other Black groups.
0
Howard
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#146
Report 14 years ago
#146
(Original post by Sarky)
I and nobody in my close circle of friends/family blame "whites" for the way things are. But "Blacks" is a very loose term. Do you mean black caribbean people? Black african people? Attitudes among different black people are very different. Black african people do better than caribbeans in education. I can't speak for my whole ethnic group. The black people i know work hard. My grandmother came over from Jamaica in the 50's and worked her arse off. I've never heard her blame white people for anything. If you want to do well, you get off your arse and work hard. Thats what i've done, thats why i'm in medical school now. I know black people who do **** all, and blame everything. Usually its poverty, and yes they do blame white people. However there are very few black people that i know like that.
So you are acknowledging that black carribeans are not excatly excelling themselves? Why are black africans doing better than black carribeans? Surely both are black and both must face the same obstacles set up by white people (according to the rational of the original poster) Are black africans smarter than carribeans? I doubt it. Or are carribean blacks "generally" lazier than their African brethren? Is there an attitude problem here?

And I raise my glass to your grandmother, and don't doubt how hard shne worked, but with respect the immigrants of the 50's had something called a work ethic which IMVHO has been diluted somewhat down the generations.
0
Vienna
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#147
Report 14 years ago
#147
(Original post by Sarky)
But the racist people I have encountered would be much more likely to talk to a white person who they feel they have a common identity (at least in colour) with than me, who they have preconceptions about.
well were getting there at least. If i asked technik if there was any justification for a criminal to shoot a man, and technik responded to me, "ask one and find out". and then i responded that in my experience, criminals would be much more likely to get on with other black men, how would react to that?
0
Sarky
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#148
Report 14 years ago
#148
(Original post by Howard)
So you are acknowledging that black carribeans are not excatly excelling themselves? Why are black africans doing better than black carribeans? Surely both are black and both must face the same obstacles set up by white people (according to the rational of the original poster) Are black africans smarter than carribeans? I doubt it. Or are carribean blacks "generally" lazier than their African brethren? Is there an attitude problem here?

And I raise my glass to your grandmother, and don't doubt how hard shne worked, but with respect the immigrants of the 50's had something called a work ethic which IMVHO has been diluted somewhat down the generations.
Black caribbeans in education don't do as well as africans, thats very true. Attitude doesn't help. But my point is that the attitude problem i have seen that holds black caribbeans (especially boys) back isn't to do with them blaming white people. Anti-school subculture is probably more prevalent among the people i know that fit that category.
0
Howard
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#149
Report 14 years ago
#149
(Original post by randdom)
True but you could say some white english people eat curry and some don't.
As that how you would conduct a conversation with someone who was interested in learning about you? Picture the scene....erm....Randdom on holiday in.....oh I don't know, let's say Turkey........

Turkish Waiter "I see on TV English people like to eat India curry food; this true?"
Random "Some do and some don't"

Bit of a conversation stopper. Isn't it more likely that you'd say "Curry is very popular, in fact it's taken over from Fish n Chips as our national dish" thereby at least implying some sort of generalization?

If you seriously would have advanced the first very guarded answer I should think you'd make very dull dinner company indeed.
0
Sarky
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#150
Report 14 years ago
#150
(Original post by vienna95)
well were getting there at least. If i asked technik if there was any justification for a criminal to shoot a man, and technik responded to me, "ask one and find out". and then i responded that in my experience, criminals would be much more likely to get on with other black men, how would react to that?

It would depend on whether it was based on your experiences or just on prejudice. I remember talking to a girl who said that she associated black men with crime because in her area that was all black men seemed to do. She had been mugged by 2 black boys, and had been burgled twice by black people. So in that case, her experience was that the black people she knows of were associated with crime. How could i tell her that most black men were not criminals? Of course i did tell her that, but it didn't mean much to her based on what she knew. Hopefully as she meets more people like me she can begin to appreciate that not everyone is the same. Most black people aren't involved in crime, most white men aren't paedophiles. Experience counts for a lot.
0
Howard
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#151
Report 14 years ago
#151
(Original post by Sarky)
Black caribbeans in education don't do as well as africans, thats very true. Attitude doesn't help. But my point is that the attitude problem i have seen that holds black caribbeans (especially boys) back isn't to do with them blaming white people. Anti-school subculture is probably more prevalent among the people i know that fit that category.
OK. Fair enough. I'll pursue this no further since you are big enough to acknowledge that this is a black (carribean) attitude problem.
0
randdom
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#152
Report 14 years ago
#152
(Original post by Howard)
As that how you would conduct a conversation with someone who was interested in learning about you? Picture the scene....erm....Randdom on holiday in.....oh I don't know, let's say Turkey........

Turkish Waiter "I see on TV English people like to eat India curry food; this true?"
Random "Some do and some don't"

Bit of a conversation stopper. Isn't it more likely that you'd say "Curry is very popular, in fact it's taken over from Fish n Chips as our national dish" thereby at least implying some sort of generalization?

If you seriously would have advanced the first very guarded answer I should think you'd make very dull dinner company indeed.
Well to be honest if someone is talking to me about the number of british people who eat curry they aren't going to be the best company themselves. There are things that I am enthusiastic about and that I can talk about for hours unfortunately currey isn't one of those things.
0
Vienna
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#153
Report 14 years ago
#153
(Original post by Sarky)

It would depend on whether it was based on your experiences or just on prejudice. I remember talking to a girl who said that she associated black men with crime because in her area that was all black men seemed to do. She had been mugged by 2 black boys, and had been burgled twice by black people. So in that case, her experience was that the black people she knows of were associated with crime. How could i tell her that most black men were not criminals? Of course i did tell her that, but it didn't mean much to her based on what she knew. Hopefully as she meets more people like me she can begin to appreciate that not everyone is the same. Most black people aren't involved in crime, most white men aren't paedophiles. Experience counts for a lot.
Hopefully, youll realise that not all racists are white.
0
Sarky
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#154
Report 14 years ago
#154
(Original post by Howard)
OK. Fair enough. I'll pursue this no further since you are big enough to acknowledge that this is a black (carribean) attitude problem.
Among some.
0
denilson200
Badges: 0
#155
Report Thread starter 14 years ago
#155
I've been reading all the points made by the members in this group and there are so many of them that I disagree with but it would take a project to reply to the comments so I will just speak in broad terms.Firstly I am truthful person and I feel one of the ways more understanding would happen was if a blk person and a white person could both sit down at a table and both speak openly and honestly and neither of them make any excuses for what they have to say.

What made me write this about "white privilege" was an incident a few months back, I was talking to a white man about race.

The student says he wants a level playing field with no unearned advantages for anyone. I ask him whether he thinks that in the UK being white has advantages. Yes, he concedes.

So, if we live in a world of white privilege--unearned white privilege--how does that affect your notion of a level playing field ? I ask.

He paused for a moment and said, "That really doesn't matter."

That statement, I suggested to him, reveals the ultimate white privilege: the privilege to acknowledge you have unearned privilege but ignore what it means. It drove home to me the importance of confronting the dirty secret that white people carry around with them everyday: In a world of white privilege, some of what you have is unearned.

I have travelled the world and seen and experienced a lot and I thing I have realised is that to be white has meaning only in terms of what it doesn't mean. To be white only has meaning in so far as it means not to be black or brown.What it means to be white is merely to not be "the other".
0
Sarky
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#156
Report 14 years ago
#156
(Original post by vienna95)
Hopefully, youll realise that not all racists are white.
From an earlier post of mine:

This thread is about white privilege, written from the viewpoint of a black person. Of course i'm not stupid enough to think that all racists are racist against black people. I'm not hard done by. You think i don't know that there are other people e.g. black people that are racist? I can't justify that either. Its wrong. It doesn't matter who does it.
0
Vienna
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#157
Report 14 years ago
#157
(Original post by Sarky)
From an earlier post of mine:

This thread is about white privilege, written from the viewpoint of a black person. Of course i'm not stupid enough to think that all racists are racist against black people. I'm not hard done by. You think i don't know that there are other people e.g. black people that are racist? I can't justify that either. Its wrong. It doesn't matter who does it.
So we'll put the "chances are.." comment down to a regrettable slip on your part.
0
Howard
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#158
Report 14 years ago
#158
(Original post by randdom)
Well to be honest if someone is talking to me about the number of british people who eat curry they aren't going to be the best company themselves. There are things that I am enthusiastic about and that I can talk about for hours unfortunately currey isn't one of those things.
But in the scene above this is a waiter making polite conversation, expressing an interest in your country, and probably practicing his English. Are you telling me you couldn't bring yourself to say more than "some do, and some don't" because if you went any further you might commit the sin of making a generalization? Give me a break.

Besides, you'll see that Sarky herself has now made a generalization. For posterity here it is,

"Black caribbeans in education don't do as well as africans, thats very true. Attitude doesn't help. But my point is that the attitude problem i have seen that holds black caribbeans back"

Not that difficult is it?
0
NDGAARONDI
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#159
Report 14 years ago
#159
(Original post by kellywood_5)
Interesting how the poster of this thread didn't even stick around to argue his point....must have realised no-one was buying his crap :rolleyes:
This is not uncommon. Also note the word apartment. This is more common in the USA than in the UK.
0
Sarky
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#160
Report 14 years ago
#160
(Original post by vienna95)
So we'll put the "chances are.." comment down to a regrettable slip on your part.
What exactly am i meant to be regretting?
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Would you turn to a teacher if you were being bullied?

Yes (65)
23.3%
No (214)
76.7%

Watched Threads

View All