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Likelihood of a new political party rising too power? Watch

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    (Original post by Liquidus Zeromus)
    More of a likelihood than a new political party rising to the top three, no?
    I'd say about equally unlikely. But do note that I'm defining a Liberal resurgence as something quite significant here (i.e. challenging the big two for power).
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    (Original post by #1Genius)
    I'd say about equally unlikely. But do note that I'm defining a Liberal resurgence as something quite significant here (i.e. challenging the big two for power).
    Hmm. They'd need the same circumstances, but it would be easier. They suffer from being wedged inbetween the LabCons with unremarkable leaders, it seems.
    I prefer them to the other two, definitely. If only they could make a comeback. I'm fed up with Labour and the Tories. No wonder there isn't much interest in politics.
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    (Original post by Danules)
    How likely do you think a new political party could rise too power, and when?

    If a new party were to play the media right then why not? I don't think the LibDems could seriously challenge Lab/Con, I see them as too weak.
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    The Liberal Democrats have only been around for 2 decades. It wasn't that long ago that the Social Democratic Party was created from a splinter group from the Labour Party to give birth to the Lib Dems with the Liberal Party.


    Whether a new party is created will depend on the economic and geopolitical situation in the future. It's not that strange to predict that our country and its situation in the world will be very different in a decade or so.


    You could predict rising nationalism as Britain becomes a smaller player on the international scene especially if the change is dramatic. When things go incredibly bad and people feel powerless about the situation in their country, they end up voting for the parties with the more extremist views.
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    (Original post by Liquidus Zeromus)
    Hmm. They'd need the same circumstances, but it would be easier. They suffer from being wedged inbetween the LabCons with unremarkable leaders, it seems.
    I prefer them to the other two, definitely. If only they could make a comeback. I'm fed up with Labour and the Tories. No wonder there isn't much interest in politics.
    What exactly do the LibDems stand for that appeals to you so much, though? They seem to blow with the wind of public opinion, saying what they want without fear of ever having to enact their policies.

    They're naturally afforded the freedom to present themselves as a bit different from the other two parties, but Median Voter Theory holds that the second they take power they would immediately lose that false air of originality. It's an inevitability.
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    (Original post by #1Genius)
    What exactly do the LibDems stand for that appeals to you so much, though? They seem to blow with the wind of public opinion, saying what they want without fear of ever having to enact their policies.

    They're naturally afforded the freedom to present themselves as a bit different from the other two parties, but Median Voter Theory holds that the second they take power they would immediately lose that false air of originality. It's an inevitability.
    That is true, but as they are quite centrist and neutral, to an extent, they appeal to me pretty well. So what the heck, deal a blow to the stupid clowns we have in rotation now, shake things up a bit until a real alternative pops up.
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    (Original post by Liquidus Zeromus)
    That is true, but as they are quite centrist and neutral, to an extent, they appeal to me pretty well. So what the heck, deal a blow to the stupid clowns we have in rotation now, shake things up a bit until a real alternative pops up.
    But I'm interested in specific LibDem-centric policies that attract you to the party.
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    (Original post by #1Genius)
    But I'm interested in specific LibDem-centric policies that attract you to the party.
    No specific policies, their main selling point to me that they're more or less in the middle between Labour and the Conservatives. Less prone to ideological bias, even if they are populist.
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    (Original post by Liquidus Zeromus)
    No specific policies, their main selling point to me that they're more or less in the middle between Labour and the Conservatives. Less prone to ideological bias, even if they are populist.
    I'd say they're fairly Left-wing to be honest; possibly even more so than Labour at the moment.
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    (Original post by #1Genius)
    I'd say they're fairly Left-wing to be honest; possibly even more so than Labour at the moment.
    Who are themselves, in several ways, to the right of the conservatives.
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    My party will be in power by 2015.
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    (Original post by Invictus_88)
    Who are themselves, in several ways, to the right of the conservatives.
    I certainly see the Conservatives as left-wing, but in what areas are they more left than Labour?
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    (Original post by Invictus_88)
    Who are themselves, in several ways, to the right of the conservatives.
    In what respect, 42-day detention etc?
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    (Original post by Liquidus Zeromus)
    No specific policies, their main selling point to me that they're more or less in the middle between Labour and the Conservatives. Less prone to ideological bias, even if they are populist.
    They (at least at the moment) have a far greater support for civil liberties than either of those parties. Which is very good. I'd like to see them reformed as a land tax party, and there is a small movement within them which aspires to this, but I doubt it will happen... it's far too good an idea.

    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    I certainly see the Conservatives as left-wing, but in what areas are they more left than Labour?
    "left-wing" doesn't mean "left of your libertarian-self".
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    (Original post by fraternité)
    "left-wing" doesn't mean "left of your libertarian-self".
    Ooh, burn. But if we're not being total idiots, then "left-wing" does mean economically liberal, which in turn means in support of socialist economic policies, which most certainly appropriately describes the Conservative Party given its support for limited welfare, social security, partially centralised banking, and socialised medicine.

    Unless we're using a demonstrably-flawed single-axis political spectrum, I don't see how the Conservatives are further left than Labour on any issues, though, even with New Labour's shift rightwards to appease big business.
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    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    Ooh, burn. But if we're not being total idiots, then "left-wing" does mean economically liberal, which in turn means in support of socialist economic policies, which most certainly appropriately describes the Conservative Party given its support for limited welfare, social security, partially centralised banking, and socialised medicine.
    Economic liberalism is support for free markets. The policies you've mentioned are centrist/"Third Way". Were they considered "left-wing" (not even centre-left?!), I wonder where full-fledged Social Democrats would be (extreme left, presumably?) and then Socialists (completely off the map?). What would the centre be? Paleoconservatism? This is some crazy political map we're drawing up...

    Are we being total idiots?
    Unless we're using a demonstrably-flawed single-axis political spectrum, I don't see how the Conservatives are further left than Labour on any issues, though, even with New Labour's shift rightwards to appease big business.
    I actually wasn't disputing your challenge to their being left of Labour. The person concerned was, however, more than likely talking about civil liberties, and using the media-terms for such positions (social-liberalism as the paradigm of the left, paternalistic conservatism as the right).
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    (Original post by fraternité)
    Economic liberalism is support for free markets. The policies you've mentioned are centrist/"Third Way". Were they considered "left-wing" (not even centre-left?!), I wonder where full-fledged Social Democrats would be (extreme left, presumably?) and then Socialists (completely off the map?). What would the centre be? Paleoconservatism? This is some crazy political map we're drawing up...

    Are we being total idiots?
    I was, for the record, using the American political definition of liberalism when talking about economic liberalism, which I support would simply be economically leftist in European terms.

    The Conservatives aren't really socialist, relatively speaking, since they have a strong contingent of anti-socialist members within the party with entire power structures based around laissez-faire economic policies and libertarian social policy. However, the policies I described are quite clear examples of redistribution of capital, at least on principle based on need. That is socialism. It doesn't matter that they only really maintain support for them for populist reasons.
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    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    I was, for the record, using the American political definition of liberalism when talking about economic liberalism, which I support would simply be economically leftist in European terms.

    The Conservatives aren't really socialist, relatively speaking, since they have a strong contingent of anti-socialist members within the party with entire power structures based around laissez-faire economic policies and libertarian social policy. However, the policies I described are quite clear examples of redistribution of capital, at least on principle based on need. That is socialism. It doesn't matter that they only really maintain support for them for populist reasons.
    I don't use the American definition as it doesn't make sense, and I am not American, but fair enough.

    So you're saying that the implementation of any vaguely 'socialistic' (to use the term rather loosely policies makes a party 'left-wing'?

    Redistribution based on need does not make a party 'left-wing' just because the 'extreme' form of such policies, socialism, is left-wing... the centre, the 'Third Way' is precisely the moderate amalgamation of capitalistic/corporatist and socialistic policy.

    EDIT: Again, just out of curiosity, if any level of need-based redistribution makes a position 'left-wing', please identify the centre (I imagine it could only be need-blind redistribution), and then anything right of centre (which must either be degrees of need-blind redistribution, making this a very unbalanced scale - very left-heavy, or no redistribution at all, meaning there is no scale to the right of the centre ground...).
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    (Original post by fraternité)
    I don't use the American definition as it doesn't make sense, and I am not American, but fair enough.

    So you're saying that the implementation of any vaguely 'socialistic' (to use the term rather loosely) policies makes a party 'left-wing'?

    Redistribution based on need (to a moderate degree) does not make a party 'left-wing' just because the 'extreme' form of such policies, socialism, is left-wing... the centre, the 'Third Way' is precisely the moderate amalgamation of capitalistic/corporatist and socialistic policy.
    Well, yes, I would say that those policies (I'm not sure how it's particularly vague, either; socialism is defined, as I understand it, as a economic theory involving, to some extent (we can't really say in totality as even the USSR at various points had some level of individual ownership) state ownership and control of industry, and redistribution of wealth on the basis of need, rather than worth, and several Conservative policies involve just that) mean that the Conservatives are leftist. Centre-leftist, definitely due to the fact that they're less socialist than Labour and maintain some support for free market economics (although that's been on the downturn since the fall of Thatcher), but on the left nonetheless. The UK Libertarian Party, to an extent, the Liberal Party, and possibly UKIP would be economically to the right of them, although I believe the latter twos' support for socialised health care would but leave them on the left even so. We don't really have any economic-right parties in the UK (as long as we're looking at current manifestos rather than party membership) except the UK Libertarian Party, but if you want an example of one then look at the US Republican Party (to an extent, as they talk the talk but don't necessarily walk the walk, but the extent is arguable) or the US Libertarian Party.
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    (Original post by #1Genius)
    In what respect, 42-day detention etc?
    And privatisation of previously nationalised institutions.
 
 
 
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