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The Barristers watch

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    I watched it, and I must say it has got me considering the solictor route instead.
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    (Original post by SilkySmooth)
    I think she did, but surely they couldn't of based their decision on that, to call her back just to go on about that seems strange.
    The call back was for the Cameras. They don't do that really.

    Most likely the interview was too, as the application form for that set asks for a breakdown of BVC grades, it seems unlikely they would interview someone who had failed and may never pass, and may therefore be a waste of a valuable slot.

    The set has very close links with the middle temple who helped pay for the programme. Every situation will have some degree of set up.
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    I do believe the call-back was a set-up (there is no way there would be sufficient resources to do that every year...), but I highly doubt they'd consider messing with the interview-selection process per say...that would run contrary to Bar Society regulations and could cause serious trouble for the set in question. The distinction is that the former would not affect the chances of other applicants, whilst the latter clearly would.
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    I liked the guy - I'm glad he got pupillage. I didn't think his moot was particularly poor as someone else said above.

    I have to say I'm not seeing the love for the first girl - she does seem very nice but she didn't seem to me to have the sort of 'X factor' if I may use such a cliche that is needed. They showed a bit of her advocacy in BVC classes in the first programme and it was pretty rubbish (though perhaps it's a bit unfair to judge her on that alone). The other one has zero chance with failing a module on the BVC - I can't understand why they'd call someone for an interview with seemingly no legal experience and the failing a module - did seem a bit fishy to me.
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    (Original post by emmings)
    I liked the guy - I'm glad he got pupillage. I didn't think his moot was particularly poor as someone else said above.

    I have to say I'm not seeing the love for the first girl - she does seem very nice but she didn't seem to me to have the sort of 'X factor' if I may use such a cliche that is needed. They showed a bit of her advocacy in BVC classes in the first programme and it was pretty rubbish (though perhaps it's a bit unfair to judge her on that alone). The other one has zero chance with failing a module on the BVC - I can't understand why they'd call someone for an interview with seemingly no legal experience and the failing a module - did seem a bit fishy to me.
    I was thinking the same.

    Anyone know where she studied? The guy is from Warwick.
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    I've considered the idea of a law conversion when I graduate, with the intention of eventually becoming a barrister, but I have to say that this programme is confirming my suspicions about just how hard it is. Even if you are a top candidate, from Oxbridge, with a first, and you do very well on the BVC, you still only have a slim chance of actually getting a pupillage. What hope is there for anyone?
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    (Original post by Dionysus)
    I've considered the idea of a law conversion when I graduate, with the intention of eventually becoming a barrister, but I have to say that this programme is confirming my suspicions about just how hard it is. Even if you are a top candidate, from Oxbridge, with a first, and you do very well on the BVC, you still only have a slim chance of actually getting a pupillage. What hope is there for anyone?
    With reasoning skills such as those behind that sentence, you probably *would* have trouble finding pupillage. Surely you realise that the pupillage chances for 'a' BVC graduate are vastly different from those that the Oxbridge First candidate? I can't put a number on those chances, but I wouldn't imagine the chances are much lower than 1 in 2, if that.
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    Clearly, that was a slight exaggeration. The point I was making is that only the absolute cream of graduates are even considered and, of those, only a minority are successful. Hence, it is an extremely high-risk career path to enter into.
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    (Original post by Dionysus)
    I've considered the idea of a law conversion when I graduate, with the intention of eventually becoming a barrister, but I have to say that this programme is confirming my suspicions about just how hard it is. Even if you are a top candidate, from Oxbridge, with a first, and you do very well on the BVC, you still only have a slim chance of actually getting a pupillage. What hope is there for anyone?
    Well, that programme has certainly made me think. It seems that for your average law graduate, or non-law, (if the programme is taken to reflect the average), then yes, it will be difficult, however if I remember correctly none of the students on there got a first, none were from Oxford, none got Outstanding on the BVC...average will always be difficult but it has made me think that as long as I work hard to secure the right academics, it will definitely be achievable.
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    Have to say it gets increasingly irritating reading comments from people still at uni that suggest the solicitor route is somehow inferior.
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    (Original post by Ethereal)
    Have to say it gets increasingly irritating reading comments from people still at uni that suggest the solicitor route is somehow inferior.
    Are you referring to Matty B lfc? If so, I don't think that's what he is inferring. I think he's suggesting that there are more TCs available etc, so it is statistically easier to obtain a TC than a pupillage. If that's not not what you meant, sorry!
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    its not "inferior" unless you want to be a barrister then of course for you as an individal. What the solicitor route is is an awfull lot easier, no-one will dispute that a TC is much much easier to come by than a pupillage!
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    (Original post by Takahashi)
    its not "inferior" unless you want to be a barrister then of course for you as an individal. What the solicitor route is is an awfull lot easier, no-one will dispute that a TC is much much easier to come by than a pupillage!
    As I've yet to see any verifiable statistics I would dispute it.
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    Common sense doesn't have to be backed up by statistics...
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    (Original post by Evil_Genius)
    Common sense doesn't have to be backed up by statistics...
    How pray tell is it common sense? Until you can show me there are less applicants for more places I will continue to put your points down to snobbery.
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    If you have to put me points down to anything, it would be to the lack of wisdom amongst bar applicants.

    Do you hear major newspapers bringing up the LPC-->TC gulf, or the Law Society commissioning 3 reviews since 2000 on the issue, in response to how dire it has become? Do you often hear aspiring solicitors moan about the absence of training contracts nearly as often as BVC students? Sure, this isn't iron-clad proof (I do believe statistics are available, somewhere, but have better things to do with my time...), but it is certainly very persuasive circumstantial evidence...
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    (Original post by Evil_Genius)
    If you have to put me points down to anything, it would be to the lack of wisdom amongst bar applicants.

    Do you hear major newspapers bringing up the LPC-->TC gulf, or the Law Society commissioning 3 reviews since 2000 on the issue, in response to how dire it has become? Do you often hear aspiring solicitors moan about the absence of training contracts nearly as often as BVC students? Sure, this isn't iron-clad proof (I do believe statistics are available, somewhere, but have better things to do with my time...), but it is certainly very persuasive circumstantial evidence...
    Are there enquiries in to the lack of TC places as per LPC graduates? Yes.
    Are there concerns that some firms take LPC graduates on as paralegals and dangle non-materialising TCs in front of them? Yes.
    Do I hear LPC graduates moaning they can't get TCs? Yes. A lot of people that I know from the LPC are struggling - and no, before you say it they didn't get 3rds/2:2s and aren't thick as *****.

    The sad but true fact is that there is as much anecdotal evidence that it is ******* hard to get a TC and even harder to get a decent one. There are simply more LPC graduates every year than there are TCs available, which means students have to compete both against their own year and against the previous years who still do not have training contracts. So, until you can show categorically that there is a significant statistical disparity between the two I will take your repeated spewing of the "fact" with an increasingly large pinch of salt.
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    Your last paragraph can be transposed directly to the BVC. I also notice that you mentioned a 'decent' TC---well, that's an extrareneous variable as far as the comparison is concerned, as we are talking about *all* pupillages, including the equivalent of a 'high street provincial TC' (i.e. a Chambers in Sleuth).

    Of course there are *concerns*--just because there are *some* doesn't mean they are at all comparable in scope to that with regard to pupillages (also adjust this comparison to the fact that there are far fewer BVC graduates, who still manage to make more noise..). I think the burden is on *you* to show that the LPC-->TC metamorphesis is equally slim, as you are going against the commonly agreed facts...

    In any case, you really seem to be taking this discussion rather personally---I certainly never implied that the solicitor route is inferior. In any case, just because something is more difficult to get, does not mean it is better. I also invite you to consider the far greater degree of financial support offerred by solicitors' firms, which surely should figure into what is 'easier'.
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    (Original post by Evil_Genius)
    Your last paragraph can be transposed directly to the BVC. I also notice that you mentioned a 'decent' TC---well, that's an extrareneous variable as far as the comparison is concerned, as we are talking about *all* pupillages, including the equivalent of a 'high street provincial TC' (i.e. a Chambers in Sleuth).
    I said hard and harder. That is not to say that it isn't hard to get a bog standard TC.

    Of course there are *concerns*--just because there are *some* doesn't mean they are at all comparable in scope to that with regard to pupillages (also adjust this comparison to the fact that there are far fewer BVC graduates, who still manage to make more noise..). I think the burden is on *you* to show that the LPC-->TC metamorphesis is equally slim, as you are going against the commonly agreed facts...
    They aren't commonly agreed, and it is you that is asserting a position.

    In any case, you really seem to be taking this discussion rather personally---I certainly never implied that the solicitor route is inferior. In any case, just because something is more difficult to get, does not mean it is better. I also invite you to consider the far greater degree of financial support offerred by solicitors' firms, which surely should figure into what is 'easier'.
    The choice to shoulder debt or not does not make any material difference to the difficulty of getting the end result.

    Why do I react when I read such comments? Because I am tired of reading the same "TSR truisms" without any objective back up. You should know better, as an aspiring barrister, than to assert such things without the evidence to support it.
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    Middle Temple did not fund the programme. It was paid for by the BBC and the OU. Get your facts straight.

    (Original post by FMQ)
    The call back was for the Cameras. They don't do that really.

    Most likely the interview was too, as the application form for that set asks for a breakdown of BVC grades, it seems unlikely they would interview someone who had failed and may never pass, and may therefore be a waste of a valuable slot.

    The set has very close links with the middle temple who helped pay for the programme. Every situation will have some degree of set up.
 
 
 
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