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What's the argument against hard labour in prisons? Watch

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    (Original post by wawrwinka)
    I do accept it. That's why I said if you want to make it not slavery then make it optional work, and if they choose not to do it double their sentence.
    that's like saying it's not robbery if you give someone the choice of being robbed or beaten up and they choose being robbed.

    a punitive measure for not doing something, is a very different thing to an incentive for doing something. The former would not suddenly make it 'not slavery'. In fact it wouldn't change the definition of what it was at all..
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    (Original post by wawrwinka)
    I do accept it. That's why I said if you want to make it not slavery then make it optional work, and if they choose not to do it double their sentence.
    Are you serious?

    Doubling their sentence would be an unfair peripheral punishment for not accepting slavery. The sentence itself is designed to reflect the severity of the crime.

    I'm not sure if you're a troll or just incredibly stupid. :shifty:
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    (Original post by wawrwinka)
    The definition doesn't really matter. Forcing convicted criminals to do something that is good for them and good for us is not a bad thing. I don't give a damn whether or not you define it as slavery.
    Whether you think slavery is objectively bad is not the issue here. You have already said you agree with the consensus definition, that forcing someone to work without pay, is slavery; and that your proposed system would fit this definition. So why are you unwilling to outright say that you support this form of slavery?

    I'm against slavery of all kinds because it is the exploitation of labour, and thus immoral.
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    I think its a great idea in principle. However, I think that there is a limited number of things that you can get prisoners to do without it being: 1) utterly pointless because most will goof around, or 2) being a great drain on resources because of the increased number of guards you would need

    HOWEVER, I think a GREAT alternative would be to allow people to do something work related whilst in prison. One of the major problems is that people have no money, nowhere to go and no job to go into when they leave prison. It would be a good idea IMO to let those who want to earn a little money whilst in prison, so that they have some money and some work experience for when they leave - empowering people to escape the spiral of crime.
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    (Original post by wawrwinka)
    This has crossed my mind and the only solution is to do jobs that wouldn't otherwise be done (ie not profitable for the private sector and not worth it for the government). Sure there will be a shortage of things to do, and it probably depends on the location of the prisons, but I'd bet that an hour of brainstorming will produce at least 10 good ideas of jobs they can do without screwing over law-abiding people. Someone's already mentioned making furniture - there was a programme on tv about british charities that collect unwanted furniture for people who can't afford to buy any.

    Name any job and it could be given to people on the dole for slightly more than the dole in money - teaching them valuable skills for employment.

    Again this will depend on the location of the prison (and other stuff that we can't consider). And I agree, it will result in more prisons being unable to take part in this, but that by no means means that most prisons couldn't take part. It's impossible to say how many until its tried.

    But the only example that I know enough to talk about is London's largest prison, Wormwood Scrubs. It is immediately overlooking a large hospital, large playing fields and astro turf football pitches. All of this is closed off. I'm sure they could clean the hospital windows and maintain the fields without too many extra prison guards.

    Anything more than having them in their cells requires a lot more prison guards. Guards cost a lot of money. The prison system is already in enough fiscal trouble as it is.

    Anyway as you say, I'm not an expert on this. If they can't do outdoors then they can't do it. But there's still indoors.

    I know there are people more qualified than me already thinknig about this, but all the gym time/tv watching/criminal networking/boredom could be replaced by work, even if its very restricted work.

    Still the problem remains that you haven't thought thought his proposal at all. How can you claim that it is a good idea without having any knowledge of what it actually entails?
    So, in summation, this thread is irrelevant as none of us know anything about this.
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    (Original post by wawrwinka)
    Convicted criminals being forced to do penal labour is not slavery.
    FFS, you've already admitted that it's slavery, when you agreed to that definition.
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    (Original post by Darkel)
    I'm against slavery of all kinds because it is the exploitation of labour, and thus immoral.
    But it's ok to imprison people?
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    But it's ok to imprison people?
    Yes
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    Criminals have the same "rights" as other citizens. Personally I think it's a load of trollop. If you take from society, you should be forced to pay something back with forced labour, regardless of the crime. Free or cheap labour does wonders.
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    (Original post by wawrwinka)
    Why out of interest do you draw the line between imprisoning convicts and penal labour?
    People should be taken out of society if they have proven they are too dangerous to live in it. Until they are convincingly rehabilitated, they should not re-enter society.

    Penal labour on the other hand is plain exploitation. It shouldn't be state's place to gain slaves every time someone does something the state doesn't agree with.
 
 
 
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