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    (Original post by SophistiCat)
    Yeah- but that's the same with A levels really. I knew a lot of people who put tons of effort in and did really badly.
    Would you say natural ability was more important than hard graft at degree level?
    I would like to know the answer to that as well, I think it depends largely on the nature of the course. Somthing like maths or chemestry for example a lot of people would struggle no matter how much effort they put into it.
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    (Original post by SophistiCat)
    Just wondering... obviously it depends on the degree and such but generally- how much harder is it to get a first than a 2:1?
    Very very difficult....but i feel happy when i get a 2:1, but i'm always after a high 2:1, at least 65....last year i worked my áss off for two pieces (each about 10-12 computer sides) and got 68 in both....and i was quite disappointed to be honest because i thought they deserved firsts...but never mind...as long as im proud of work i produce, they are original and something i can look back on as some "good kick áss work" then i have no problems....i am utterly against people copying stuff off the net but stuff like that goes on....i don't....nothing beats originality and thats where intelligence differences comes into play.

    Im on a sociology course....third rated in the country, top three department so my 2:1 holds better than many other places...i could guarantee that some of my work would have achieved firsts elsewhere - but i don't think thats the point - rather have a credible and true result. Same with politics which i did in the first year...a good 65 but i thought i would have got better but being at york, and the extremely high standards.....

    Firsts in any degree are downright difficult, but i try my best, but yes i am always chasing the upper echelons of the 2:1....to seperate myself from the many who do get low 2:1s or middle 2:1s - its just my competitive streak - i want to be beat others hehe!
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    What about for Politics?
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    What about for Politics?
    Well its difficult for all.....but obviously it depends what uni you go to and how much status it holds, and how held in regard it is, for the particular degree you have in mind.

    What uni you thinking of?
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    What about for Politics?
    Sorry i'm not used to these message boards - i see you have york as a possibility/on your mind...

    Very high standard as you would expect - york is a liberal place, certainly close to left-wing than right-wing....well the students there that is.
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    This thread is scaring me. :afraid: I thought A level's were bad enough.
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    (Original post by fivebyfive)
    This thread is scaring me. :afraid: I thought A level's were bad enough.
    Don't let it, I've gone out at least 4 nights per week since week one and I'm lucky enough to be averaging ~85% so it is realistic to have a great first year and still not kill your degree.
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    I think for science subjects, where there is a definitive answer to each question, its a lot easier to obtain a first without necessarily spending hours and hours doing work and sacrificing you're social life - especially if you have a natural talent for the subject

    However, for arts subjects, where wider reading is fundamental to getting a first, no amount of natural ability will help you blag you're way through an essay. If you havent read the books of various academics, you can't reference them in your exam. No amount of natural ability is going to help you in that situation. Thus you have to put in a lot of extra hours in regardless of your ability (although if you have a photgraphic memory and an ability to understand complex arguments, then you may not need to spend as much time on a text as someone who doesn't possess those skills - unfortunately I have a DIRE memory).
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    For our Victorians paper in English, we have to mention at least three authors in one question, and answer three essay questions...but the catch is, you can't mention the same author again in the other 2 essays...so you're looking at minimum 9 authors, 2 books by each of them...18 books minimum, not including academics, criticism on each individual novel. If you're looking to impress, you'd want more than 3 authors....so it's a lot of reading..and consider the average size of a Victorian novel...(Bleak House, Middlemarch, Vanity Fair...) whomp!

    *my point is that you couldn't blag your way through an arts essay
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    I think for science subjects, where there is a definitive answer to each question, its a lot easier to obtain a first without necessarily spending hours and hours doing work and sacrificing you're social life - especially if you have a natural talent for the subject
    This is sort of true and sort of not. Taking maths as an example, alot of the question is just having the guts to approach it and think about your solution. Thinking is very much the question. So if you've been in lectures, you'll probably know what things are, and if you've got the maths vibe, you can construct a solution which is sensible.

    On the other hand, you can save yourself alot of thinking by doing work before the question is asked (ie before the exam). E.g. prove that there exists unique f(z) = (az + b)/(cz+d) that maps three distinct points to three distinct points. This is doable if you were forced to by just fudging things. Would probably take you a page and half, but you can do it on three lines using a special feature of mobius maps if you've seen it before. It's critical to be able to do this, particularly where your "flair and elegance" is being assessed.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    but you can do it on three lines using a special feature of mobius maps if you've seen it before. It's critical to be able to do this, particularly where your "flair and elegance" is being assessed.
    When your flair reading is assessed the small novel of a textbook that can be had from most good libraries is also useful. Allowing you to show that you have an inquisitive mind and are willing to look beyond the current course material in search of a correct snswer to the questions that those EVIL module examiners sert!!!
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    (Original post by Clodagh)
    For our Victorians paper in English, we have to mention at least three authors in one question, and answer three essay questions...but the catch is, you can't mention the same author again in the other 2 essays...so you're looking at minimum 9 authors, 2 books by each of them...18 books minimum, not including academics, criticism on each individual novel. If you're looking to impress, you'd want more than 3 authors....so it's a lot of reading..and consider the average size of a Victorian novel...(Bleak House, Middlemarch, Vanity Fair...) whomp!

    *my point is that you couldn't blag your way through an arts essay
    Oh God- I'm freaking out now! It's such a massive step up from A level isn't it?!
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    (Original post by SophistiCat)
    Oh God- I'm freaking out now! It's such a massive step up from A level isn't it?!
    Yes but its gradual the first year probably won't be any harder than A level. If you have good A level grades you should not find a degree a huge jump, some people say the difference between GCSE and A level is greater, I didn't find this though.
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    (Original post by amazingtrade)
    Yes but its gradual the first year probably won't be any harder than A level. If you have good A level grades you should not find a degree a huge jump, some people say the difference between GCSE and A level is greater, I didn't find this though.
    I personally think the difference has been huge. With A-levels you could quite easily miss half your lessons and do no homework and still get A's if you did thorough revision. On my course at the moment (first year law), if you take a couple of days off, you feel like you've fallen massively behind. Do no extra reading, and you're screwed. Do anything less than 30 hours a week, and you've no chance of a first come summer.
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    I personally think the difference has been huge. With A-levels you could quite easily miss half your lessons and do no homework and still get A's if you did thorough revision. On my course at the moment (first year law), if you take a couple of days off, you feel like you've fallen massively behind. Do no extra reading, and you're screwed. Do anything less than 30 hours a week, and you've no chance of a first come summer.
    My secondary school was very bad though so maybe that made it harder, teaching was better at college and university. I couldn't really miss that much at college but you could miss stuff. University is a lot faster pace and I agree you can;t miss lectures in the same way. I think being in the final year I am all to used to it now, but I do remember when I was in the first year it took my along time to adjust to fast nature of the lectures. We cover in an hour what we could have done in 4 hours if it was in college. If I was to go back to college now I would probably find it stupidly easy and slow.
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    (Original post by SophistiCat)
    Oh God- I'm freaking out now! It's such a massive step up from A level isn't it?!
    You're not the only one freaking out! A Level English at the moment means reading one play, and some poems in a YEAR. I'm not going to be able to cope!
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    What about Sociology? That wont be easy im sure
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    (Original post by amazingtrade)
    A lot of mature students tend to get good grades for this reason, many of them have did badly in their A levels but are now very mature and work damn hard. Ability does have a lot do with it but if you put 100% effort into then you should get a 2:1, however you can struggle with a subject and put 100% in which I can imagine would be very frustrating. I feel very sorry for these students as if you put 100% in its not your fault what grade you get.

    To get a first I think have to both work very hard and also be a genius. I managed to just about scrape a 1st for my second year, there is no way I will be getting anything like that this year though, the final year project is just too much for me.
    Please refrain from exaggerating posts. You hardly need to be a genuis, it all depends on person, not just your opinion.
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    My geography teacher said uni was a complete doss compared to A levels! As did my sociology teacher.
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    (Original post by SiAnY)
    My geography teacher said uni was a complete doss compared to A levels! As did my sociology teacher.
    Yes, well, that's subjectivity for you.
 
 
 
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