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Vienna
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#181
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#181
(Original post by Mad Caddie)
Indeed. This thread is merely an attempt by vienna to discredit me.
I hardly need to attempt that. Based on a discussion we had in relation to a different topic, I came to the conclusion that the argument was static because we viewed the actions of Hamas and other groups differently. In that respect, I was more than horrified to hear that you found terrorist actions to be nobel, in light of the declared genocidal testament of the Islamic Resistance Movement. This thread is based around that opinion and a discussion of whether people view those actions as ones of a terrorist group.


This issue was already being discussed in this thread, but she chose to bring about a more public debate, complete with a mindless public poll, which she would use to "chip" us.
I dont see how you could justify the poll as mindless or why, who and what im 'chipping'.

Why this was necessary still baffles me.
Because its a discussion I was interested in and as a member im entitled to start a thread accordingly.

The hipocrisy is what is most astonishing, because according to vienna we should....

"spend some time searching for related or relevant threads to the one you intend to start. "
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/t46482.html
I found and contributed to many relevant threads, none answered the specific question or interest I had.


...then again, she does have a history of changing her views to suit her and the situation so I shouldn't really be suprised.
Which, as with all your rhetoric, you couldnt substantiate if your life depended on it.
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Tyler Durden
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#182
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#182
(Original post by vienna95)
What is?
All the issues which arise out of your question are complex.

Most notably the question of the Palestine/Israel conflict. :rolleyes:

In my (humble) opinion Vienna you do take rather a black and white stance on many of these issues. You contribute a lot to the D and D forums I admit. However, just look at this poll for example - where is the middle ground? Black and white is all very well in theory - but things are never that simple (especially not in politics).
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Vienna
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#183
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#183
(Original post by Mad Caddie)
Quote me.
By all means,

"Mad Caddie deems this cause to be a reasonable or justified."

"Indeed he does.He finds this cause more noble than that of the Israeli government."

"Hamas = Noble cause with intentions of Palestinians at heart. "

"This would also be consistent with Mad Caddie's belief that Hamas' declared goals of genocide and destruction of the Jewish state are more noble than the cause of the Israeli government.

Yes."
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Vienna
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#184
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#184
(Original post by englishstudent)
All the issues which arise out of your question are complex.
Such as?

Most notably the question of the Palestine/Israel conflict. :rolleyes:
There are plenty of threads in that respect, this particuarly asks to consider whether Hamas should be labelled a terrorist group or not. There appears to be enough dispute over the matter. I dont see how this specific issue can then allegedly overshadow other issues in the Israel/Palestinian dispute.

In my (humble) opinion Vienna you do take rather a black and white stance on many of these issues.
Such as?

You contribute a lot to the D and D forums I admit. However, just look at this poll for example - where is the middle ground?
You want a poll option for "Maybe"....? That is pointless. The middle ground, the debate, the definition takes place on the thread.

Black and white is all very well in theory.
Indeed.
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MC
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#185
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#185
(Original post by vienna95)
In that respect, I was more than horrified to hear that you found terrorist actions to be nobel,
Out of interest, do the actions of the Israeli government "more than horrify" you, or are their murderous acts justified?

(Original post by vienna95)
I dont see how you could justify the poll as mindless
The poll was clearly made so you could see who deemed Hamas what. Hence why it was public. This poll only served you so you could judge those who
had taken part, based on their answers. Any legitimate poll would not have been public. This would have encouraged a lot more people to vote, and people to vote without fear of non-conformity with the masses.

(Original post by vienna95)
or why, who and what im 'chipping'.
I would like to draw your attention to the first line you wrote in this post:

http://thestudentroom.co.uk/showpost...6&postcount=19

Do keep up dear.

(Original post by vienna95)
Because its a discussion I was interested in and as a member im entitled to start a thread accordingly.
The discussion was taking place in this thread. There was no need to make another thread about it. Also, can I add that this should have been in the politics sub-forum.

(Original post by vienna95)
Which, as with all your rhetoric, you couldnt substantiate if your life depended on it.
As you can't this comment. So there we go.
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MC
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#186
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#186
(Original post by vienna95)
By all means,

"Mad Caddie deems this cause to be a reasonable or justified."
Yes, the liberation of the Palestinians.

(Original post by vienna95)
"Indeed he does.He finds this cause more noble than that of the Israeli government."
Note the highlighted words.

(Original post by vienna95)
"Hamas = Noble cause with intentions of Palestinians at heart. "
You have failed to prove me wrong, instead taking random quotes, out of context, in a failed attempt to prove me wrong. May I remind you, that you were quick to tell me not to take quotes out of context, and now are doing the exact same. This further substantiates my claims of you being unable to stick you one argument.

Mad Caddie - "...she does have a history of changing her views to suit her and the situation so I shouldn't really be suprised."

Maybe I wasn't clear before:

WHERE DID I "DECLARE" GENOCIDE IS A NOBLE CAUSE?
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cheesecakebobby
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#187
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#187
I agree completely with vienna on this issue. I am confused as to how anybody could deny the actions of Hamas amount to terrorism. They specifically target innocent civilians; their tactic of getting what they want involves scaring the people of Israel, ie terrorising them.

What is not so clear cut is their motives. The quote vienna has repeated surely indicates more than simply "claiming what is theirs" (or to that effect), though i recognise that this does not encompass the entire cause, or represent the views of all Palestinians. The point is that whatever the motives are for Hamas's actions, their actions are still those universally recognised as what constitutes terrorism. You can debate the meaning of the word "terrorism" all you like, but as long as it has meaning, I fail to see how the term could not apply to this scenario.
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Vienna
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#188
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#188
(Original post by Mad Caddie)
Out of interest, do the actions of the Israeli government "more than horrify" you, or are their murderous acts justified?
Which actions?

The poll was clearly made so you could see who deemed Hamas what. Hence why it was public. This poll only served you so you could judge those who
had taken part, based on their answers. Any legitimate poll would not have been public. This would have encouraged a lot more people to vote, and people to vote without fear of non-conformity with the masses.
I dont really see what the problem is. Im not really interested in the opinion of people who are scared of non-conformity.

I would like to draw your attention to the first line you wrote in this post:

http://thestudentroom.co.uk/showpost...6&postcount=19

Do keep up dear.
Im not really interested or comprehending any of this point.

The discussion was taking place in this thread. There was no need to make another thread about it. Also, can I add that this should have been in the politics sub-forum.
The discussion topics are entirely different. The discussion isnt strictly political.

As you can't this comment. So there we go.
Which is testament to your logic --> I cant substantiate that you cant substantiate, hehe. Yet in not substantiating you prove my point.
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Vienna
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#189
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#189
(Original post by Mad Caddie)
Maybe I wasn't clear before:

WHERE DID I "DECLARE" GENOCIDE IS A NOBLE CAUSE?
Be mature enough to change the typeface and Ill be happy to point it out.
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MC
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#190
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#190
(Original post by vienna95)
Be mature enough to change the typeface and Ill be happy to point it out.
I thought maybe BIG, BOLD words would make more sense to you as you didn't seem to understand the earlier instructions which were in clear English.
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MC
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#191
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#191
(Original post by vienna95)
Which actions?
Re-read my comments on the various threads. You have taken the liberty to start a thread based on my comment, at least read the thread properly before asking my views.

(Original post by vienna95)
Im not really interested in the opinion of people who are scared of non-conformity.
Something which is quite clear. This ignorance however, does hinder debate.

(Original post by vienna95)
Im not really interested or comprehending any of this point.
Defeated again? You really must stop humiliating yourself like this.

(Original post by vienna95)
Which is testament to your logic --> I cant substantiate that you cant substantiate, hehe. Yet in not substantiating you prove my point.
You have changed your views in the following posts from those which you have posted in previous posts, in the previously named thread:

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...&postcount=180

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...&postcount=177

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...&postcount=167
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Apollo
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#192
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#192
(Original post by Mad Caddie)
I'm glad we agree that genocide isn't noble, because, at the rate the Israelis are going, the Palestinians will be wiped out by genocide.
Maybe they could help by not blowing themselves to pieces as often as possible....?
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Tyler Durden
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#193
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#193
(Original post by PadFoot90)
Maybe they could help by not blowing themselves to pieces as often as possible....?
It's a two-way conflict. Neither side is in the right.
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Vienna
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#194
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#194
(Original post by Mad Caddie)
"Be mature enough to leave your name when you rep me, and at least rep me with valid justification"
Before you present tit for tat neg rep, it would be wise to confirm that it was actually me.
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Vienna
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#195
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#195
(Original post by englishstudent)
It's a two-way conflict. Neither side is in the right.
I believe some sides are more right than others.
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randdom
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#196
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#196
(Original post by vienna95)
I believe some sides are more right than others.
Not really if you take the Israeli government and the palistinian government disreguarding and non goverment factors which the government doesn't control. So it really is the palistinians vs the Israelis then no side is worse than the other.
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Vienna
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#197
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#197
(Original post by randdom)
Not really if you take the Israeli government and the palistinian government disreguarding and non goverment factors which the government doesn't control. So it really is the palistinians vs the Israelis then no side is worse than the other.
But im not, this thread, as was made clear, relates to Hamas. The actions of the PA and the Palestinian people are clearly distinguishable from the actions and goals of Hamas. I believe their actions are ones of terrorism against the State of Israel, in and the respect they are less politically legitimate than the actions of both the Palestinian people and the State of Israel.
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Repentance
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#198
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#198
(Original post by vienna95)
I believe some sides are more right than others.
neither side is more right...life is not black and white, when you stop being in your shell where everything is white/black then you will start to understand. the fact that Hamas is an islamic group you need to know more about islam and its teachings before quoting things that will suit your ideas and thoughts.

Hamas and the isreali force are just as bad as one another...If you say Hamas are terrorists so are the isrealis. Simple!
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Tyler Durden
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#199
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#199
(Original post by vienna95)
I believe some sides are more right than others.
Well then that is where we differ. That is also why I didn't vote "yes" in the poll. If I was answering purely that question then perhaps I would agree - Hamas have carried out acts of terrorism. However, all the connotations of the poll are to do with questions of right and wrong. As you have admitted, you believe some groups to be "more right" than others. Let me guess, American-backed Israel?
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randdom
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#200
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#200
(Original post by englishstudent)
Well then that is where we differ. That is also why I didn't vote "yes" in the poll. If I was answering purely that question then perhaps I would agree - Hamas have carried out acts of terrorism. However, all the connotations of the poll are to do with questions of right and wrong. As you have admitted, you believe some groups to be "more right" than others. Let me guess, American-backed Israel?
I didn't really want to get into it so i voted on the question and the question only.
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