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MC
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#221
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#221
(Original post by vienna95)
Id be interested to see such a quote, although it would be consistent with a recent change in US policy.
I'm speaking from news reports I've seen. Though if you want, I'll try and get a quote.
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Vienna
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#222
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#222
(Original post by Repentance)
how about the jewish force?
You mean Israel.

Hamas-merely standing up for their country and people, not terrorists....
They commit acts of terrorism.
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Agent Smith
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#223
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#223
Don't try to pretend that the Israelis and the Palestinians aren't all as bad as each other. The Palestinians are terrorists, yes, but the Israelis have invaded their territory and intend wiping them out. Who is right? After so many atrocities on both sides, is it realistic for either side to claim the moral high ground?
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Vienna
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#224
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#224
(Original post by Agent Smith)
The Palestinians are terrorists, yes,
Certain groups claiming to support the Palestinian cause commit terrorist acts. I believe these groups are terrorists.

but the Israelis have invaded their territory
When?

and intend wiping them out.
Utter rubbish. The Israelis are withdrawing from Gaza and want to establish a Palestinian state that also provides security assurances for Israel. Despite possessing military capability that could destroy the entire region, the most 'offensive' action Israel has taken in regard to the Palestinian people is to erect a security fence that they have moved on several occasions to ease the concerns of those communities. The 200 million arabs are living on 99% of the land, with six million Israelis living on the remaining 1%, to suggest Israel is an imperial power is clearly wrong.

Militant and terrorist groups, along with the PLO and other nations in the region have at one time threatened to destroy the Jewish people and Israel.
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john williams
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#225
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#225
We had a talk about this is assembly today from a speaker and a history teacher. The general idea they were giving is that Hamas has only been created for the freedom of the Palastine people and there is no other way for them to express themselves without killing people. Also that Israel has stolen the land (gaza strip, west bank etc) and are now paying settlers to occupy the land, which belongs to Palestine and was given to them in 1940 something by the UN. Also the british media is biased towards Israel and America pays for Israels machinery, which they then use to bomb Hama leaders with fighter jets. Anway i dont know what point i was trying to make and voted that they were a terrorist group, but what they are fighting for isnt necessarily wrong...
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Vienna
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#226
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#226
(Original post by john williams)
We had a talk about this is assembly today from a speaker and a history teacher.
Based on what they appeared to have told you, can you tell me the names of these people and which education authority your school is in?
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john williams
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#227
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#227
Also the Israelis treat the Palestines who live in Israel as 'second class' citizens and have some charter which doesnt give returning Palestines equal rights.

btw doesnt the fence aim to take over some of their land?
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john williams
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#228
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#228
(Original post by vienna95)
Based on what they appeared to have told you, can you tell me the names of these people and which education authority your school is in?
Well im not sure of the name of the speaker, however we are going to get a speaker representing each side in the next few weeks and i think the one from Palestine who was meant to come in today (who is a big figure) had a meeting in Palestine with the PM. Its a school in solihull (near Birmingham).
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Vienna
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#229
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#229
(Original post by john williams)
Also the Israelis treat the Palestines who live in Israel as 'second class' citizens and have some charter which doesnt give returning Palestines equal rights.
This is utter nonsense.
When the state of Israel was founded, all the Palestinians that lived and occupied on that land were offered Israeli citizenship,they had no other independent nation, a Palestinian or Arab state has never existed in Palestine. Today, Israeli Arabs, Christians and Jews all have equal rights and are represented in all walks of Israeli life. There are many decorated Israeli Arabs in the IDF. They can sit in the Israeli parliament and Supreme court. Contrastingly, non-Muslims are offered no such rights in the Palestinian territories. The Palestinian Charter demands that every Jew be exported out of Palestine.

btw doesnt the fence aim to take over some of their land?
No. The fence aims to offer security to Israeli settlements.
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Vienna
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#230
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#230
(Original post by john williams)
there is no other way for them to express themselves without killing people.
Abbas and Sharon seem to be expressing themselves rather well at the moment dont you think? Israel has always wanted an independent Palestinian state. The Arab nation has never wanted an Israeli state. There is no place in diplomacy for the advocation of terrorism as a legitimate political tool.

Also that Israel has stolen the land (gaza strip, west bank etc) and are now paying settlers to occupy the land, which belongs to Palestine and was given to them in 1940 something by the UN.
Stolen from who? Israel were offered land by the UN. They were attacked by Egypt and Jordan. The resulting land remains Israels while there is no peace. There has never been a state of Palestine, and the Palestinians never complained until Israel came into existence.
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Vienna
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#231
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#231
(Original post by john williams)
Well im not sure of the name of the speaker, however we are going to get a speaker representing each side in the next few weeks and i think the one from Palestine who was meant to come in today (who is a big figure) had a meeting in Palestine with the PM. Its a school in solihull (near Birmingham).
You are going to get a speaker representing Israeli opinion? Send me a PM with the name of the school. Was this in a school assembly or part of a lesson?
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Repentance
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#232
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#232
(Original post by vienna95)

Stolen from who? Israel were offered land by the UN.
what right do the UN have just giving away land? does it have their names craved on it or something :hmpf: ....the land is for he palistinians! Isreal should live with that and give up...perhaps then hamas wouldn't have to stand for its people by force. peace is required and it will happen if israel got a life and stopped chasing the Palestinians out of their land! :idea:
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Vienna
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#233
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#233
(Original post by Repentance)
what right do the UN have just giving away land?
The right afforded them by those on the land.

does it have their names craved on it or something
The Jewish settlers were the majority on the land that is now Israel. They also had historical ties there stretching back thousands of years. Everyone settled on that land was offered the opportunity of Israeli citizenship. Everyone on that land had as good a claim as any to that land.

the land is for he palistinians!
You mean the Arabs who decided to reject Israeli citizenship and having lived under 'occupation' for thousands of years decide that 1% of the middle east is theirs not the Jewish 'catastrophe' and commit themselves to a life long war of bloodshed?

Isreal should live with that and give up
Or it should seek to defend its people as any nation state worth its salt should. It should not cave into barbaric, medieval terrorism seeking to ethnically cleanse the Middle East of Jews.

stopped chasing the Palestinians out of their land!
Who are they? and What is their land?
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Jamie
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#234
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#234
(Original post by vienna95)
Based on what they appeared to have told you, can you tell me the names of these people and which education authority your school is in?
O for the love of god...
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Vienna
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#235
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#235
(Original post by Agent Smith)
s it realistic for either side to claim the moral high ground?
i havent seen the Israeli government pursuing anything like this..http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...mdvxc.asp?pg=1

Whatsmore, in the wake of peace talks yesterday, Hamas make their feelings clear..

"Islamic militants, informally observing calm in a revolt they had led since 2000, said they were not bound by the formal truce announced without their blessing, while Jewish settlers in Gaza vowed anew to stay put in land they see as a birthright.

Mushir al-Masri of the militant group Hamas, which is committed to destroying Israel, said: "The announcement... of a ceasefire expresses the position only of the Palestinian Authority."

So what of Mad Caddie and others that believe that this is a "Noble cause with intentions of Palestinians at heart"
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faa
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#236
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#236
(Original post by vienna95)
Is Hamas a terrorist group or, like Mad Caddie, do you believe that they are militants fighting for a "good cause. I have more respect for Hamas then I do for the IDS. Hamas, IMO, has good intentions and it's struggle is with reason."

Hamas - an outlawed terrorist group according to the UN, the EU and the United States. The Hamas Charter declares the goal of the terrorist group to be,

"to implement Allah's promise, whatever time that may take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until the Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them), until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: Oh Muslim! Oh Abdullah!, there is a Jew behind me, come on and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

Hamas has claimed responsibility for 425 terrorist attacks of various kinds, in which 377 men, women and children were murdered and 2,076 civilians and soldiers were wounded

Mad Caddie deems this cause to be a reasonable or justified.
Now anyone that goes along with that pile of tosh is completely backward! I dont mind them disliking israeli's, but to actually come out officially with that is pathetic. Just like Irans policy of "to destroy the nation of israel". Why dont all those countries just grow up? You see the UK giving up its overseas territories to canada, australia and hong kong, yet you dont see the UK getting all funny about it!!!!
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MC
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#237
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#237
(Original post by faa)
Now anyone that goes along with that pile of tosh is completely backward!
What exactly are you referring to?
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faa
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#238
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#238
(Original post by vienna95)
There are many decorated Israeli Arabs in the IDF. They can sit in the Israeli parliament and Supreme court. Contrastingly, non-Muslims are offered no such rights in the Palestinian territories. The Palestinian Charter demands that every Jew be exported out of Palestine.
Hate to sound so harsh, but that sounds awfully like what ive been told about the Quaran, like how muslims believe that their religion is the best, and that if you're not religious you were born muslim! This is total and utter rubbish! Do they never read what they're saying and think if they're insane???!!! Like ive said too many times on this forum, i hope all those terrorists commit suicide and realise there is no such thing as god. That would prove that what they fight for is tosh, and what we (civilised countries) fight for is real (democracy).
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faa
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#239
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#239
(Original post by Mad Caddie)
What exactly are you referring to?
"to implement Allah's promise, whatever time that may take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until the Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them), until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: Oh Muslim! Oh Abdullah!, there is a Jew behind me, come on and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
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shadowkin
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#240
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#240
(Original post by faa)
That would prove that what they fight for is tosh, and what we (civilised countries) fight for is real (democracy).
Oh I'm proud to be an American because at least I know I'm free.... :rolleyes:

Democracy..real? Well I never.
civilised..yes because dropping bombs everywhere really secures the road to peace.
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