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#161
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#161
(Original post by Saagar)
That was a quick cheerio.
or will you do it for him? you seem to know the answer
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Vienna
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#162
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#162
(Original post by Speciez99)
How mentioned children, you bringing irrelevant things into this discussion.
Its not irrelevant as far as my opinion is concerned. That opinion was not present on the poll.

You have posted a poll with two options. One is clearly bad the other clearly good. Now I do not think Hamas can be defined like that.
No, one is terrorist the other is not terrorist. In either case, it would neither render an assessment of Hamas to be entirely good or bad, or in your eyes, be sufficient basis to do so.

(This also rests on my last point which I thought you should of addressed by now). You called my view disgusting for suggesting Hamas have both a good and bad side associated with it. You have yet to justify this judgement. It is not like you to be trying to white wash people now is it?
No. I suggested it was disgusting that while Hamas may have good or bad sides, this earned a comparison to the USA with no other distinction.
That is my opinion. I personally believe that Mad Caddie's belief that genocide is noble, is also disgusting. Yet you choose to take issue with the way I might have presented a rather straightforward poll and my opinion of your reaction to it and not actually contribute to the topic of the thread.


I am deriving it from Kant's categorical imperative. So Vienna are you disagreeing either of these, yes or no will suffice and any reason why you might disagree.
Killing innocent people is surely always bad?
Saving people's lives are is surely always good?
This bears no relevance to the poll. You are making the assumption that being a terrorist group implies a decision that would render Hamas entirely bad. Yet by your own criticism that may not necessarily be the case.


Well how are you defining terrorist? You have offered not definition, something which I would of thougth would of been key to defining your poll.
Well, thats a concern. Im happy for people to offer their own definitions.
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Vienna
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#163
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#163
(Original post by shadowkin)
yes, nothing brings you off your high horse does it?
certainly not childish comments
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#164
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#164
(Original post by vienna95)
Jewish settlers were the majority on the land that is now Israel and Gaza. They moved and bought land from the Arabs and turned it into a prosperous region. The Arabs welcomed the Jewish contribution and didnt even view themselves as being Palestinian, a term that they claim was invented by the Israelis.
But buying land doesn't mean that the total land "belongs" to Israel. The area was still known as Palestine before the conflicts. Its only comes down to the fact that the UN and British were the ones who altered the standing. It was foolish to attempt to create new countries/nations on an area which was a single one in the first place.



(Original post by vienna95)
The British and the UN proposed two states, that were consistent with the demographics and historical ties of the region. The Arabs refused that opportunity. As much as we can discuss blame, it doesnt excuse or invalidate the current situation, where the Jewish people are threatened with ethnic cleansing.
I understand your points, but the key problem is "historical ties". If everything was like this then Italy or Greece could lay claim to whole areas of the world. Also the fact that the UN and Arabs have disagreements can only be put to the fault of the UN and the British. It was not there land and hence they should not have put a firm and solid decision as to who "owns" the land and how it is separated.

Btw, thnx for replying!
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#165
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#165
(Original post by vienna95)
certainly not childish comments
Erm, no. I think childish comments have come from the likes of you and Technik. Where you tell people they're not in general chat or call people 'clowns' etc.

hmm.
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#166
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#166
(Original post by Speciez99)
or will you do it for him? you seem to know the answer
I don't quite know what you're getting at here. I wouldn't "do it" for him seeing as I'm arguing against his views.
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Vienna
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#167
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#167
(Original post by Saagar)
But buying land doesn't mean that the total land "belongs" to Israel.
No, but the land didnt belong to Arabs either. Jewish settlers were the majority owners of that land.

I understand your points, but the key problem is "historical ties". If everything was like this then Italy or Greece could lay claim to whole areas of the world.
I wanted to show that in terms of claim to a homeland, the Jews there didnt take land from Palestinian Arabs.
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#168
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#168
(Original post by vienna95)
No, one is terrorist the other is not terrorist. In either case, it would neither render an assessment of Hamas to be entirely good or bad, or in your eyes, be sufficient basis to do so.

No. I suggested it was disgusting that while Hamas may have good or bad sides, this earned a comparison to the USA with no other distinction.
That is my opinion. I personally believe that Mad Caddie's belief that genocide is noble, is also disgusting. Yet you choose to take issue with the way I might have presented a rather straightforward poll and my opinion of your reaction to it and not actually contribute to the topic of the thread.
You disgree that the USA has a good and bad side to it? If not i see no problem with the comparison. If you do please either explain or with drawl your view that mine is disgusting.

And for reference I take issue with you calling my views digusting without any basis.
(Original post by vienna95)
This bears no relevance to the poll. You are making the assumption that being a terrorist group implies a decision that would render Hamas entirely bad. Yet by your own criticism that may not necessarily be the case.
On what basis do we decide? Is a group that saves hundreds of lives but kills 5 civilians a terrorist or not?
(Original post by vienna95)
Well, thats a concern. Im happy for people to offer their own definitions.
You are judging others and you have yet to define what you are judging the on? You called my views disgusting on what basis? And surely this is somehting that should of gone in the 1st post? "I dont know what a terrorist group is so please can you give me one and then tell me whether Hamas are or not? would of sufficed"
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Vienna
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#169
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#169
(Original post by shadowkin)
Erm, no. I think childish comments have come from the likes of you and Technik.
feel free to point them out.

Where you tell people they're not in general chat or call people 'clowns' etc.
hmm.
Eternal Idol called me a clown to which technik corrected him in a similar manner, for nothing more than to demonstrate the little value in insult.
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#170
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#170
(Original post by Saagar)
I don't quite know what you're getting at here. I wouldn't "do it" for him seeing as I'm arguing against his views.
a quick cheerio suggested what i wrote was of no value to this threadl, I am deeply sorry if I am mistaken and I cannot emphasis that enought
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#171
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#171
(Original post by vienna95)
Eternal Idol called me a clown to which technik corrected him in a similar manner, for nothing more than to demonstrate the little value in insult.
and you've called other peoples views disgusting :rolleyes:
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#172
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#172
(Original post by Speciez99)
a quick cheerio suggested what i wrote was of no value to this threadl, I am deeply sorry if I am mistaken and I cannot emphasis that enought
Indeed you are mistaken. Technik said in a previous post that he was bored of the thread and then said "cheerio", within a few posts he replied, hence why I said "that was a quick cheerio"
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#173
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#173
(Original post by Speciez99)
You disgree that the USA has a good and bad side to it? If not i see no problem with the comparison. If you do please either explain or with drawl your view that mine is disgusting.
The US has a good and bad side, Hamas has a good and bad side. In the context of the thread, to not actually expand on the comparison would suggest the comparison has some merit and thus the two subjects are comparable. In the context of the topic and the fact that you see no problem with the comparison, I find that disgusting.

And for reference I take issue with you calling my views digusting without any basis.
Ive demonstrated their basis, if you dont like that basis then there isnt much I can do. It remains my opinion. I take issue with being the subject of pointless remarks, criticism and baiting on a consistent basis for every statement of my opinion or not. We all have to live with it.

On what basis do we decide? Is a group that saves hundreds of lives but kills 5 civilians a terrorist or not?
That would have been a good first post.
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Vienna
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#174
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#174
(Original post by Speciez99)
and you've called other peoples views disgusting :rolleyes:
yes, their opinions based on my reaction, not stating the opinion as being idiotic or stupid or the poster similarly.
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Tyler Durden
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#175
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#175
This is an extremely difficult and complex issue which has been put under the shadow of a (needlessly in my view) narrow poll.
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Tyler Durden
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#176
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#176
(Original post by Speciez99)
That is a post of extremely good quality. Have some rep.
Thanks.

(Original post by shadowkin)
i never thought I would agree with something he said.
BTW, you got your avatar from that online pet site didnt you?
Hey - we never got on badly - just had that one disagreement. :rolleyes:

As for my avatar - I can't remember where I got it. It's meant to be an ironic comment on my appreciation of good music but it just makes me look like a geek who really has a pet stone.
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#177
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#177
(Original post by vienna95)
Mad Caddie has already declared that genocide is a nobel cause.
Quote me.
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#178
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#178
(Original post by englishstudent)
This is an extremely difficult and complex issue which has been put under the shadow of a (needlessly in my view) narrow poll.
Well said! :hello:
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#179
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#179
(Original post by englishstudent)
This is an extremely difficult and complex issue which has been put under the shadow of a (needlessly in my view) narrow poll.
Indeed. This thread is merely an attempt by vienna to discredit me.

This issue was already being discussed in this thread, but she chose to bring about a more public debate, complete with a mindless public poll, which she would use to "chip" us.

Why this was necessary still baffles me. The hipocrisy is what is most astonishing, because according to vienna we should....

"spend some time searching for related or relevant threads to the one you intend to start. "
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/t46482.html

...then again, she does have a history of changing her views to suit her and the situation so I shouldn't really be suprised.
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Vienna
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#180
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#180
(Original post by englishstudent)
This is an extremely difficult and complex issue
What is?
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