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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...re/4214427.stm

    Baby Charlottes family have lost their appeal to make doctors treat any life threatening illness she has. There are some people who are objecting to the medical tem appealing to the courts to back up their decision over her parents. What are your thoughts?

    I think its a really sad case and i feel for her parents but I also for feel for the staff who are having to care for the child too. Its a shame its had to come to this.
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    on the face of it, it would appear more cruel to prolong her life but i can understand the parents doing everything they can to keep her alive.
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    I don't think anyone can really judge this case because not enough evidence is listed in that news article. The only this that I can see from that article is that if her brain isn't growing than surely the news isn't good. If she is going to have a short painful life anyway. Maybe it would be better to let her die in peace without prolonging her life. This is going to be very hard on the parents but it is hard to tell is what they want is what is best for the child.
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    Difficult one. I have to say I agree with doctors withholding treatment because it's not fair to make her suffer for longer than she has to when she obviously has such fatal problems. But it must be so hard for parents to be in a situation like that, and they want to do everything they can to keep her alive, which is understandable.
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    (Original post by lessthanthree)
    She's improving now though. She reacts, and apparently sees.

    I think it ought to be revised, given her improvements and obvious will to survive.
    But when you're working from a very low baseline, the smallest of improvements is comapratively a massive one...

    It's a very sad case, I just hope that what ever happens in the future it's in Charlotte's best interests and not in those of her parents or the medics...
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    (Original post by Fluffy)
    But when you're working from a very low baseline, the smallest of improvements is comapratively a massive one...

    It's a very sad case, I just hope that what ever happens in the future it's in Charlotte's best interests and not in those of her parents or the medics...
    Medics get paid regardless, so I think you'll find that whats in the 'medics best interests' is charlottes best interests.

    I think the parents are seeing what they want to see, rather than what is really there - a little child in pain with little awareness.
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    Medics get paid regardless, so I think you'll find that whats in the 'medics best interests' is charlottes best interests.

    I think the parents are seeing what they want to see, rather than what is really there - a little child in pain with little awareness.
    Many medics will, unfortunately, see her as bed blocking. To play devils advocate, I guess many babies will have died during Charlotte's stay in hospital due to lack of beds.

    Just because someone is medically qualified, it doesn't make them a saint.
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    (Original post by Fluffy)
    Many medics will, unfortunately, see her as bed blocking. To play devils advocate, I guess many babies will have died during Charlotte's stay in hospital due to lack of beds.

    Just because someone is medically qualified, it doesn't make them a saint.
    Love, get some experience on the wards before you start commenting on how we think.
    Certainly when it comes to paeds, there is no such thing as 'bed blocking'. This is a best interest issue, not a funding issue.
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    Love, get some experience on the wards before you start commenting on how we think.
    Certainly when it comes to paeds, there is no such thing as 'bed blocking'. This is a best interest issue, not a funding issue.

    Darling, I have plenty of ward experience thankyou -I might not be qualified, but I'm not stupid either! I've heard such words come out of the mouths of Doctors - from renal transplant wards, to paeds.

    Don't try to take the moral high ground, because it's not there! You're on the plain, honey!
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    (Original post by Fluffy)
    Darling, I have plenty of ward experience thankyou -I might not be qualified, but I'm not stupid either! I've heard such words come out of the mouths of Doctors - from renal transplant wards, to paeds.

    Don't try to take the moral high ground, because it's not there! You're on the plain, honey!
    Of course, 'most medics' complete scum. Sure.
    And trying to get patients out of hospital as quick as possible has nothing to do with most of these cases?
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    This wouldn't apply with Charlotte, as there's too much press interest, but at one time in some hospitals children with ancephaly, gross spina bifida or other painful and fatal conditions had two nurses on duty with them at all times. If there was only one nurse it was feared the child might be helped to die. Often the problem with doctors will not be bed-blocking but hope for heroic measures that sometime will succeed.
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    Love, get some experience on the wards before you start commenting on how we think.
    Certainly when it comes to paeds, there is no such thing as 'bed blocking'. This is a best interest issue, not a funding issue.
    foofarian - you shouldn't refer to other medics as 'we' in this case - as they won't all agree with your limited experience.

    No doctor knows everything - even some Consultant who have devoted their career to a specialism would agree that they don't know it all.
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    Whilst there is any doubt with Charlotte's prospects of living a life where she is surrounded by so much love and hope for her - doctors might be the professionals, parents are the experts on their own child -then it is only fair to offer the benefit of the doubt and do what can be done to assist her to live. Only time will tell if she improves further.

    Her parents say she is improving (and who better qualified to make that judgement considering they are with her the whole time) the medics agree there is some improvement.

    I despair of judges making these sorts of judgements that lead to such dangerous precedents.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    foofarian - you shouldn't refer to other medics as 'we' in this case - as they won't all agree with your limited experience.

    No doctor knows everything - even some Consultant who have devoted their career to a specialism would agree that they don't know it all.

    He's not even quite qualified himself yet, so take 'we' with a pich of salt! He's about as much 'we' as I am
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    (Original post by yawn)
    Her parents say she is improving (and who better qualified to make that judgement considering they are with her the whole time) the medics agree there is some improvement.
    This is my point though, in Charlottes case, they're working off a very low baseline. Charlotte blinking could be seen as a huge, monumental improvement, but it doesn't necessarily represent a significant improvement in her overall medical condition.

    That's why I said I hope that what ever happens is solely in her interests, not in those of her parents or the medics. She's the only person who is important in all this.
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    (Original post by Fluffy)
    He's not even quite qualified himself yet, so take 'we' with a pich of salt! He's about as much 'we' as I am
    firstly you'll find that 'medics' is the noun used to refer to both students and qualified.
    secondly, i had just come back from a near 24 hour shift at the hospital (and no, i cack you not) so i'm not feeling particulary studenty. And no, we didn't try to push anyone out of a bed, including the drunk who cacked himself and had scabies.
    thirdly i still don't get your stance on the medical profession. How can you possibly think that 99.9% of them want anything OTHER than what is best for their patients?
    Jamie


    ------------------------------
    4th year student doctor.
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    (Original post by technik)
    on the face of it, it would appear more cruel to prolong her life but i can understand the parents doing everything they can to keep her alive.
    I can't understand it at all.

    The court had heard medical evidence, disputed by the parents, that Charlotte - who was born three months premature at St Mary's Hospital, Portsmouth, in October 2003, with serious brain, lung and kidney damage -"had no feelings other than continuing pain".

    What kind of parents would want to prolong the life of their child in such circumstances? I think these people are monsters.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I can't understand it at all.

    The court had heard medical evidence, disputed by the parents, that Charlotte - who was born three months premature at St Mary's Hospital, Portsmouth, in October 2003, with serious brain, lung and kidney damage -"had no feelings other than continuing pain".

    What kind of parents would want to prolong the life of their child in such circumstances? I think these people are monsters.
    Not at all, its just that they are so emotionally attached, they don't want to see, or don't see the truth laid out in front of them. That the baby is in pain, will never live beyong a few years, and will never be able to leave the hospital. It must be so hard having carried a baby for x months to see it in such a state in the hospital. They obviously are waiting for some kind of miracle.
    The baby maybe does respond to some sound now, but theres a large difference between response, and conscious response.
    I feel for them i do, but think the right thing is being done - allow the baby to die when its organs start to fail.
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    Not at all, its just that they are so emotionally attached, they don't want to see, or don't see the truth laid out in front of them. That the baby is in pain, will never live beyong a few years, and will never be able to leave the hospital. It must be so hard having carried a baby for x months to see it in such a state in the hospital. They obviously are waiting for some kind of miracle.
    The baby maybe does respond to some sound now, but theres a large difference between response, and conscious response.
    I feel for them i do, but think the right thing is being done - allow the baby to die when its organs start to fail.
    I feel for them too. I'm not an unfeeling man but this is a tiny human in a near enough vegetative state that has "no feelings other than pain" Damn good argument for euthanasia IMO.
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    (Original post by Fluffy)
    Darling, I have plenty of ward experience thankyou -I might not be qualified, but I'm not stupid either! I've heard such words come out of the mouths of Doctors - from renal transplant wards, to paeds.

    Don't try to take the moral high ground, because it's not there! You're on the plain, honey!
    It probably just depends on the hospital that you are in. I know that when I went to the renal department the consultant I spoke deffinately wasn't worrying out bed blocking. I know that you were playing devils advocate but I really doubt that in paediatric cases bed blocking is an issue. It may be in other departments (I haven't come accross it yet) but I don't think it would be in departments like paediatrics and other similar ones. I have to go with foolfarin on this one that the chances are the the medics best interests are the same as those of the child. Guarenteed that may not be the case in all the time but purely on this particular case I would say that it is.
 
 
 
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