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Jamie
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#61
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#61
(Original post by frost105)
Hi foolfarian I prob didnt phrase it well. I meant that there is a continuity of care in nicu, i worked in bristol childrens hospital for a year and although I never worked in nicu i had many friends that did and the nicu there was very well run and staffed and it was a goal to have the same medical team throughout the childs stay in the hospital.
whats nicu (i thought it was a typo before) is that neonatal icu?
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yawn
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Weejimmie)
Hardly; charlotte is continually in hospital, remember, where the care staff can observe her all the time. The staff are the people who can compare Charlotte with other children as well.

Surely you mean medicine is a finite science? The opinions of the hospital staff are informed opinions, from people who have seen many children and do not have the desperate hope of Charlotte's parents. It is the parents who believe the doctors are not doing what they think the doctors can do. Medical arrogance more often takes the form of imposing life and suffering when the two are synonymous on people from curiosity and an overvaluation of what they can do than refusing to perform futile operations.
No, I mean medicine is NOT a finite science - it is limited because not all the answers are known.

I'm not sure what you are saying with your last sentence. Can you clarify please?
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Howard
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#63
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#63
(Original post by yawn)
Neither can doctors in many cases. Have you not seen all the publicity over the years where parents have entrusted their children/families to A&E's only to be told their child has a virus etc - take them home and give them some calpol - and the child has meningoccal septacaemia - and loses a limb or their life?

Too many parents allow their own instincts to be overruled by someone who doesn't have the correct diagnosis - because of this myth that is perpetuated by the medical profession that they know best.

You wouldn't get away with the myth in the US as most patients are encouraged to have input into their own health - probably because health care is not free and not adequately covered by health insurance.
Well, let's not bother with doctors any more. How about closing all the med schools and instead offering parenting classes at local colleges so they can diagnose their own children? Who needs stupid "quacks" anyway....what do they know? :rolleyes:
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Powersymphonia
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#64
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#64
(Original post by frost105)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...re/4214427.stm

Baby Charlottes family have lost their appeal to make doctors treat any life threatening illness she has. There are some people who are objecting to the medical tem appealing to the courts to back up their decision over her parents. What are your thoughts?

I think its a really sad case and i feel for her parents but I also for feel for the staff who are having to care for the child too. Its a shame its had to come to this.
Life is precious and everthing possible should be done to keep this child alive as long as possible. One day she could become well. If that was my child i'd be angry that the government has control over my dausghters life. Some people think that the law is right but I urge thewm to think about what they'd do if they were charlotte's parents.
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Howard
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Innocentvictim)
One day she could become well.
Oh look, there's a flying pig!

Do you have any idea just how ill this child is? We're not talking about a bad case of chicken pox here.
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yawn
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Howard)
Oh look, there's a flying pig!

Do you have any idea just how ill this child is? We're not talking about a bad case of chicken pox here.
Howie - have you seen the recent video of this child?
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Howard
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#67
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#67
(Original post by yawn)
Howie - have you seen the recent video of this child?
No. In honesty I havn't. I don't get British news so I'm just gleaning information from what I did pick up from the internet and the comments of others (who I assume and certainly hope have a better grip of what's in the news in the UK than I do)
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yawn
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Howard)
Well, let's not bother with doctors any more. How about closing all the med schools and instead offering parenting classes at local colleges so they can diagnose their own children? Who needs stupid "quacks" anyway....what do they know? :rolleyes:
Dont' be silly - you know I am not advocating such extreme action. :rolleyes:

I would hope that you can offer an 'insider' opinion on whether the average middle-class American citizen is more clued up on medical diagnoses and treatments than the average person in this country - what do you think?
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yawn
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Howard)
No. In honesty I havn't. I don't get British news so I'm just gleaning information from what I did pick up from the internet and the comments of others (who I assume and certainly hope have a better grip of what's in the news in the UK than I do)
Thanks for your honesty. I don't know just how many of the members who have contributed to this thread have seen the video I am talking about. If you could see it I'm sure you would reassess your opinion.
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Howard
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#70
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#70
(Original post by yawn)
Thanks for your honesty. I don't know just how many of the members who have contributed to this thread have seen the video I am talking about. If you could see it I'm sure you would reassess your opinion.
I don't think I could bring myself to say "this kid looks fine from the video" when all the doctors seem to be saying "this kid's a vegetable" (excuse my crudeness) I don't think my opinion on matters medical amounts to a hill of beans really.
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Howard
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#71
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#71
(Original post by yawn)
Dont' be silly - you know I am not advocating such extreme action. :rolleyes:

I would hope that you can offer an 'insider' opinion on whether the average middle-class American citizen is more clued up on medical diagnoses and treatments than the average person in this country - what do you think?
I wouldn't have thought so. The Americans don't strike me as any more or less savvy than the Brits in this regard.
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yawn
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#72
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#72
(Original post by Howard)
I wouldn't have thought so. The Americans don't strike me as any more or less savvy than the Brits in this regard.
My American cousins are a lot more savvy about medical matters than most Brits - perhaps you don't mix in the right circles.
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yawn
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#73
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#73
(Original post by Howard)
I don't think I could bring myself to say "this kid looks fine from the video" when all the doctors seem to be saying "this kid's a vegetable" (excuse my crudeness) I don't think my opinion on matters medical amounts to a hill of beans really.
If you have a look at my post #57 to randdom you will see I talk there about a case on TV last night where the doctors said the man was 'a vegetable' - that is a crude expression isn't it? The medical profession use the word too The man is talking now and recovering from a 19 year coma. The doctors had given up on him years ago and it was only due to his mother's persistance that he is alive and well now.
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Howard
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#74
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#74
(Original post by yawn)
My American cousins are a lot more savvy about medical matters than most Brits - perhaps you don't mix in the right circles.
My American friends are mostly John Deere baseball cap wearing, tobacco spitting folks who go by the name of "Bubba". :rolleyes:
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Howard
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#75
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#75
(Original post by yawn)
If you have a look at my post #57 to randdom you will see I talk there about a case on TV last night where the doctors said the man was 'a vegetable' - that is a crude expression isn't it? The medical profession use the word too The man is talking now and recovering from a 19 year coma. The doctors had given up on him years ago and it was only due to his mother's persistance that he is alive and well now.
A very rare case though wouldn't you say? I should imagine that in 999/1000 cases when the doctors say you are a vegetable then you are just that. Can you really justify keeping all these vegetables on life support machines in the hope than 1 in a 1000 will prove the doctors wrong?
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yawn
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Howard)
A very rare case though wouldn't you say? I should imagine that in 999/1000 cases when the doctors say you are a vegetable then you are just that. Can you really justify keeping all these vegetables on life support machines in the hope than 1 in a 1000 will prove the doctors wrong?
The thing is we never get the chance to find out just how rare cases such as these are or whether the doctors are correct as the machine is always turned off very quickly.
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yawn
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Howard)
My American friends are mostly John Deere baseball cap wearing, tobacco spitting folks who go by the name of "Bubba". :rolleyes:
Lol - I bet your buddies all smoke too - right?
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Jamie
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#78
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#78
(Original post by Innocentvictim)
Life is precious and everthing possible should be done to keep this child alive as long as possible. One day she could become well. If that was my child i'd be angry that the government has control over my dausghters life. Some people think that the law is right but I urge thewm to think about what they'd do if they were charlotte's parents.
Yawn and yourself would never like to hear this, but there is something called cost benefit. Doctors certainly rarely work by it, but you have to bear in mind that chucking everything at a lost cause, or someone who is never going to improve is a waste of resources.
Think about it, if we were to maintain one child who then grw up profoundly disabled (which charlotte will no doubt about it IF she were to survive) aand by this i mean incapable of doing anything for themselves, the medical costs will be astronomical.
And where do you think those costs will be recouped? By poorer staffing, by using less effective drugs, by shutting down local hospitals.

Its not ethial to invest so much time, money and effort into someone whos chances of living are so slim, and chances of ever living 'well' are none.
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Jamie
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#79
Report 14 years ago
#79
(Original post by yawn)
The thing is we never get the chance to find out just how rare cases such as these are or whether the doctors are correct as the machine is always turned off very quickly.
Haha, why don't you go read a book instead of talking such nonsense.
Think of it like this, people that are put on life support are generally really weak. It take s alot of effort to support your own life, own breathing.
You surely have been in a swimming pool for an hour, and then felt the huge effort it takes to climb out and walk around. THink of that, times a 1000, with the added fact that you are weak from illness/trauma.
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Weejimmie
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#80
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#80
(Original post by yawn)
No, I mean medicine is NOT a finite science - it is limited because not all the answers are known.
If it is limited- and I agree- it is finite. Finite means bounded or limited.
.

I'm not sure what you are saying with your last sentence. Can you clarify please?
Doctors more often treat patients when they do not think there is much or even any hope of a cure out of curiosity and to see if they can find ways of keeping the next patient alive for a little longer and eventually curing the condition.
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