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Jamie
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Weejimmie)
If it is limited- and I agree- it is finite. Finite means bounded or limited.
Doctors more often treat patients when they do not think there is much or even any hope of a cure out of curiosity and to see if they can find ways of keeping the next patient alive for a little longer and eventually curing the condition.
Indeed. you know that nearly all drugs are tested on terminally ill patients before going into full human trials. Not to see if they can be cured so much as to see what the side effects are.
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randdom
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#82
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#82
(Original post by yawn)
Howie - have you seen the recent video of this child?
Can I just clarrify something please. If this child really is improoving as you seem to think from this video ( I have seen clips but not the whole thing) why do you think that the doctors are doing this? Do you really think that they want to see this baby die and are ignoring her improovement out of some sort of pride or cruelness.
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Weejimmie
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#83
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#83
(Original post by foolfarian)
Indeed. you know that nearly all drugs are tested on terminally ill patients before going into full human trials. Not to see if they can be cured so much as to see what the side effects are.
I knew it happened in some: not that often. What if a side-effect is death? How do they tell?
I was thinking more of operations to deal with conditions where it was a matter of learning what could go wrong on a series of patients, during the operation and afterwards, until some people lived lomg enough to die of somethinmg else. A doctor I knew once said you should be very worried if a surgeon asked you to sign a consent form for an operation and a nomination form for the Nobel Prize for Medicine at the same time.
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yawn
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#84
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#84
(Original post by randdom)
Can I just clarrify something please. If this child really is improoving as you seem to think from this video ( I have seen clips but not the whole thing) why do you think that the doctors are doing this? Do you really think that they want to see this baby die and are ignoring her improovement out of some sort of pride or cruelness.
You tell me because I certainly don't understand it!

It could be that when the parents went to court to have the original decision not to resuscitate the child if it became necessary, overturned - the doctors did not attend. Hopefully the judge will have ordered a medical review of the child's condition whilst permitting resuscitation in the interim, pending the review. I assume that the judge didn't.
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frost105
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#85
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#85
(Original post by yawn)
You tell me because I certainly don't understand it!

It could be that when the parents went to court to have the original decision not to resuscitate the child if it became necessary, overturned - the doctors did not attend. Hopefully the judge will have ordered a medical review of the child's condition whilst permitting resuscitation in the interim, pending the review. I assume that the judge didn't.
The judge reviewed the updatd reports filled on bith sides and decided that the improvements were not significant and that is why the appeal failed.
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yawn
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#86
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#86
(Original post by frost105)
The judge reviewed the updatd reports filled on bith sides and decided that the improvements were not significant and that is why the appeal failed.
I've had a look at your original link when you started this thread and part of it says.."Justice Headley gave Mr and Mrs. Wyatt permission to bring up-to-date expert evidence to court at a hearing before Easter, which they hope will prove their case".

That tells me that the judge will consider new evidence on Charlotte's improvement at a later date - before Easter. Unfortunately he did not rescind the 'no resuscitation ruling' in the meantime.

Let's hope the baby can remain well until then - rather than a 'posthumous' revocation being made.
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Jamie
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#87
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#87
(Original post by yawn)
I've had a look at your original link when you started this thread and part of it says.."Justice Headley gave Mr and Mrs. Wyatt permission to bring up-to-date expert evidence to court at a hearing before Easter, which they hope will prove their case".

That tells me that the judge will consider new evidence on Charlotte's improvement at a later date - before Easter. Unfortunately he did not rescind the 'no resuscitation ruling' in the meantime.

Let's hope the baby can remain well until then - rather than a 'posthumous' revocation being made.
if the baby has improved as much as you say and is so fit and healthy it wont even neeed a resus order
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yawn
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#88
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#88
(Original post by foolfarian)
if the baby has improved as much as you say and is so fit and healthy it wont even neeed a resus order
First, it is not I who is saying the baby has improved and is fit and healthy. The original judgement was made on the basis that the child was unaware of her surroundings, in constant pain and there were no prospects of any sort of 'quality of life' (which always strikes me as a weird expression as 'quality of life' is so subjective).

The parents are now going to provide expert medical opinion that the reasons for the original judgement are no longer valid.
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Jamie
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#89
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#89
(Original post by yawn)
The parents are now going to provide expert medical opinion that the reasons for the original judgement are no longer valid.
No they aren't. They couldn't even provide basic medical opinion.
What they are going to do is search for a doctor who agrees with them. And there will always be one somewhere
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yawn
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#90
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#90
(Original post by foolfarian)
No they aren't. They couldn't even provide basic medical opinion.
What they are going to do is search for a doctor who agrees with them. And there will always be one somewhere

Read the link. So if there is medical opinion that supports their case it goes to show that the medical opinion that led to the ban on resuscitation is flawed.
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frost105
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#91
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#91
(Original post by yawn)
Read the link. So if there is medical opinion that supports their case it goes to show that the medical opinion that led to the ban on resuscitation is flawed.
No it goes to show that there are still some idiots that believe maintaining a child that had and never will have a quality of life is more moralistic that compassion.
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yawn
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#92
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#92
(Original post by frost105)
No it goes to show that there are still some idiots that believe maintaining a child that had and never will have a quality of life is more moralistic that compassion.

:confused:
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frost105
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#93
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#93
(Original post by yawn)
:confused:
Similiar to pro lifers and people against euthansia.
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yawn
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#94
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#94
(Original post by frost105)
Similiar to pro lifers and people against euthansia.
It's simply a belief that all human life is sacred. Every one of us has meaning, is unique and is special. Don't you agree with that then?
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yawn
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#95
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#95
And shouldn't you be at school?
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frost105
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#96
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#96
(Original post by yawn)
And shouldn't you be at school?
No, I should be in my office but I'm still on sick leave due to my recent hospital visit.
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frost105
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#97
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#97
(Original post by yawn)
It's simply a belief that all human life is sacred. Every one of us has meaning, is unique and is special. Don't you agree with that then?
Lifa has meaning but shouldnt we also stop and think heck this child is in pain and will never lead a life that even pales to normal. Also this child has gone into respiratory failure before, its liek keeping someone old alive despite the fact that its natures way for them to die.

Medecine is one of the greatest progessions of our time but there are limits to its use.
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yawn
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#98
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#98
(Original post by frost105)
No, I should be in my office but I'm still on sick leave due to my recent hospital visit.
Oh - so you've left Wycombe high school and started work?
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yawn
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#99
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#99
(Original post by frost105)
Lifa has meaning but shouldnt we also stop and think heck this child is in pain and will never lead a life that even pales to normal. Also this child has gone into respiratory failure before, its liek keeping someone old alive despite the fact that its natures way for them to die.

Medecine is one of the greatest progessions of our time but there are limits to its use.

Not only are there limits to medicines 'use' but also to it's knowledge.

Although I do agree that we are moving the 'frontiers' of medicine all the time. And this is why I think, particularly in the case of a young child - who despite all the prognoses seems to be making progress - we should endeavour to protect her life as far as we can to enable her to benefit from developments in the near future.

Regarding the elderly - with nanotechnology we already envisage that people today who are 40 will live to 150! So much for 'natures way' for them to die.
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frost105
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#100
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#100
(Original post by yawn)
Oh - so you've left Wycombe high school and started work?
No I left wycobe high school, went to university, currently doing my clinical training for my clinical psychology course.
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