Is Messi now the undisputed greatest of all time?

Internationally Messi played for Arsenal and won a title, not the best in the world but certainly can compete and still with some of the best players in the world bottled it in 2014 lost in 2018 and won a rigged wc in 2022. He also lost 3 finals in a row where the federation put them on to get messi a win in which he retired because he couldn't take how much of a bottler he was

Internationally Ronaldo plays for Preston North end and won the euros and nations league. Until he was 36 he was playing with literal bums week in week out who wouldn't make it into a premiere league side while Messi had the best attack in world football at Argentina. The refs were against him in every tournament and he never got 6 penalties in a row in any international tournament or got given goals when subs were on the pitch.

Like it or not Messi's career is closer to Neymar than it is to Ronaldo. A system player who should be remembered for bottling with the best teams, getting the most favourable refereeing at any world cup since Germany vs Hungary and for not changing football in his country like Ronaldo has, with it now being considered a footballing nation - this is like if a player came through at Greece and in 20 years time they are producing great talents. Ronaldo has more of a legacy than Messi could in 20 more seasons.

Internationally Messi played for Arsenal and won a title, not the best in the world but certainly can compete and still with some of the best players in the world bottled it in 2014 lost in 2018 and won a rigged wc in 2022. He also lost 3 finals in a row where the federation put them on to get messi a win in which he retired because he couldn't take how much of a bottler he was

Internationally Ronaldo plays for Preston North end and won the euros and nations league. Until he was 36 he was playing with literal bums week in week out who wouldn't make it into a premiere league side while Messi had the best attack in world football at Argentina. The refs were against him in every tournament and he never got 6 penalties in a row in any international tournament or got given goals when subs were on the pitch.

Like it or not Messi's career is closer to Neymar than it is to Ronaldo. A system player who should be remembered for bottling with the best teams, getting the most favourable refereeing at any world cup since Germany vs Hungary and for not changing football in his country like Ronaldo has, with it now being considered a footballing nation - this is like if a player came through at Greece and in 20 years time they are producing great talents. Ronaldo has more of a legacy than Messi could in 20 more seasons.

You put any player in that Guardiola Barcelona side and they win it all. Messi or not he had all time greats in every position. Ronaldo in that team would of scored more goals per game than Messi like he did from 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2020, 2021

You put any player in that Guardiola Barcelona side and they win it all. Messi or not he had all time greats in every position. Ronaldo in that team would of scored more goals per game than Messi like he did from 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2020, 2021

You make it sound like Ronaldo didn't play for a star studded Real Madrid side, the most expensive ever assembled at the time..

CR7 is the greatest. Put Ronaldo in that Barcelona side from the beginning and he would be on 1000 goals rn. People forget ronaldo had 0 goals in 30 champions league appearances. To go from that to the all time champions league top scorer is ridiculous. Also has the most goals in history. Greatest clutch player of all time. Leader and motivator. No one tops CR7

What is that absolute nonsense at the end about Portugal not being a footballing nation before Ronaldo

Just as a start:
Eusebio - regularly accounted for on a par with Cruyff as a player.
Rui Costa and Figo, accounted as two of the greatest players of their generation.

Just a nonsense from you and regardless of whether your other points stack up or not, this kind of lying fanboy nonsense about a man you will never meet is baffling.

A rigged world cup ahahhahahahah keep crying mate
The fact you said that just nulifies any other points you made-- it shows you are emotional and not sticking to facts but rather analogies by saying 'Arsenal like team and Preston North End'
In fact, since when does Preston North End have Bruno Fernandes, Bernardo Silva, Cancelo, Jao Felix, Leao, Rodri,pepe,hattrick hero Goncalo Ramos etc.
If we are to go off team strength from paper, Portugal have one of the strongest teams on paper and it is defo stronger than Argentinas team.
And the fact you say the refs were against him every tournament-- kindly STFU. Ronaldo got given 2 UCLs he should have not got if the referees knew what the offside rule was lol. Ronaldo is a serial diver and everyone knows that-- and now they know he is also a notorious interviewee.
And the fact you call Messi a bottler, despite football being a team game with 11 players, tells me everything I need to know.
You probably think that Ronaldo carried Madrid and Portugal, right?
Football is a team game, not one for individuals. However, individual performances can win you games but not tournaments. I feel Messi was well supported but getting 7 goals, 3 assists and POTT at 35 in the wc only shows his longevity and how much better than Ronaldo is.

You make it sound like Ronaldo didn't play for a star studded Real Madrid side, the most expensive ever assembled at the time..

I love how your entire argument revolves around ifs, buts and coulds.
The argument I present is with facts and figures but yours is emotional and theoretical lol.
This basically sums up the debate between Messi and Ronaldo fans.
Oh, and he scored more goals in those years, great!

But who has 4 golden boots-- Ronaldo

Who has 6 golden boots-- Messi

Who has 0 POTT-- Ronaldo

Who has 2 POTT-- Messi

Who has more trophies-- Messi

Who has more ballondors-- Messi

Who won a ballondor after leaving Barca-- Messi

Who did not win a ballondor after leaving Madrid-- SYSTEM PLAYER RONALDO

Mate, I can go on and on.

Ronaldo has 26 more goals in 142 games.

Messi has 120 more assists.

Ronaldo has only 11 more UCL goals in 22 games.
Messi is only 1 assist behind 'Mr UCL' in 22 less games

Ronaldo vs Messi in UCL finals-- 'bottler' Messi beat Ronaldo

Messi vs Neymar in Copa America-- 'bottler' Messi beat Neymar

Messi vs Mbappe in wc final-- 'bottler' Messi beat Mbappe

'Bottler' Messi in finals: 47 app, 34 goals, 15 assists
'Clutch' Ronaldo in finals: 35 app, 20 goals, 2 assist

WHO HAS A WORLD CUP-- MESSI
WHO IS BETTER-- MESSI

mic drop.

before ronaldo - 3 world cups, 3 euros
after ronaldo - 5 world cups, 5 euros

Messi was in a team who had nearly won the world cup before him more than Portugal had ever qualified for the damn thing, know what your talking about before you comment lmao


Argentina got 6 penalties, none of them were even reviewed / looked at by VAR, messi's 2nd goal in the final should of been disallowed as 2 subs were on the pitch. Pay attention to the game instead of jerking off into a coma looking at messi do a few faints and you might spot it

Until 2020 Portugal had put together teams comprised of Danny and Fabio Coentrao as star men for Ronaldo in his prime where he still dragged them to major tournaments where without him they would of been hopeless.

Portugal had one of the strongest teams on paper in 2022. Messi had one for 2010, 2014, 2018, 2022 as well as was the strongest team in all of the 3 consecutive copa americas he bottled which led to him retiring lmao

Ronaldo carried portugal, not in the final in 2016 of course, but without him they would of been grouped. Ronaldo carried Madrid more than Messi carried barcelona when they were both in la liga, no doubt - If you disagree you are idiotic to say the least as comparing the teams to look at 4 UCLs won while they were never the strongest team on paper and were carried in big moments by Ronaldo e.g Wolfsburg, Juventus, Man United, Bayern, Athletico The list goes on, Messi is a la liga merchant - On the UCL stage, the biggest in club football, he has a legacy which is outshone by Ronaldo's 10 fold.

Messi scored penalties and a lot of them, actual goals he didn't do much - He was not the POTT if you watched the games, Mbappe was so much better


Star studded, yes

But to compare that to the Barcelona side Messi played in is ridiculous. They were never the favourites in the UCL nor the league and countless times in the UCL ronaldo had to score 2 or 3 in the second leg to get them through - Ronaldo played in a great side, comparable with many top teams but Messi played in the best ever team with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Puyol, Dani Alves and then later with the best striker of the generation in Suarez. Messi has been blessed with having the strongest teams ever assembled around him, Ronaldo hasn't.


First of all how you wrote that makes you just look like a massive loser, like not even being ironic I just read that and think your a neek.

The most important stat in football is goals per game, how good are you at performing - Assists is a useless statistic that was barely looked at before Messi fans realised that the guy isn't as good at Ronaldo at what really matters.

Ronaldo had a higher goals to game in 2007, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 21
Messi had a higher goals to game in 2009, 12, 18, 19, 20, 22

Bottler goes further than finals. look at ronaldo in big UCL knockout games in the RO16, QF, SF where he would often score 2 or 3 to take his side through - Messi could never come close to replicating that, he is often anonymous in those stages of a competition and after 2011 barely even got to the UCL final as he simply couldn't hang in the big moments - where was the guy against Roma in 2018? Liverpool in 2019? Juventus in 2017? Bayern in 2013? Bayern in 2021? When it mattered he was missing leading to his barcelona side, particularly after the best 3 midfielders in the world either fell off or left, being embarrased on the biggest stage with messi showing nothing.

Ronaldo is a big game player - Messi is a man who has the highest ever peak in 2012 but after that year failed to perform in the big moments and he is the man responsibile for taking Barcelona to Europa league regulars

All facts at least someone has said it. Messi is definitely up there in the GOAT convo but CR7 is a different breed. People seriously need to respect Ronaldo instead of basing everything of the last few months. Thank you bro

Star studded, yes

But to compare that to the Barcelona side Messi played in is ridiculous. They were never the favourites in the UCL nor the league and countless times in the UCL ronaldo had to score 2 or 3 in the second leg to get them through - Ronaldo played in a great side, comparable with many top teams but Messi played in the best ever team with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Puyol, Dani Alves and then later with the best striker of the generation in Suarez. Messi has been blessed with having the strongest teams ever assembled around him, Ronaldo hasn't.

system player in my books.

Ronaldo better

Doesn't mean much. Ronaldo doesn't fit into Man United's system nowadays since he's just a basic poacher. Doesn't utilise his other skills anymore.

Star studded means that the Galacticos were assembled by Perez - picking the best known and often paying the highest prices to try and get what were seen as the best players into the same side. That is what Real Madrid did.

Messi - academy developed
Xavi - academy developed
Iniesta - academy developed
Busquets - academy developed
Puyol - academy developed
Dani Alves - bought for £23mil + £7mil in add-ons. In hindsight doesnt look expensive but was a lot of money back in 2008.

Real Madrid (second Galacticos era)

Cristiano Ronaldo – signed in 2009 for €94 million from Manchester United
Gareth Bale – signed in 2013 for €100 million from Tottenham Hotspur
James Rodríguez – signed in 2014 for €76 million from AS Monaco
Kaká – signed in 2009 for €67 million from Milan.
Xabi Alonso – signed in 2009 for €35.5 million from Liverpool
Luka Modrić – signed in 2012 for €32 million from Tottenham Hotspur
Karim Benzema – signed in 2009 for €30 million from Lyon
Toni Kroos – signed in 2014 for €30 million from Bayern Munich
Ángel Di María – signed in 2010 for €25 million from Benfica

Maybe if Ronaldo was a better player than Messi then Real Madrid could've been favourites for the league/UCL? Being favourites doesn't mean much - Real Madrid were not favourites when they won the CL 3 times in a row.

Messi is no doubt a generational talent, who was perhaps fortunate to have been in the Barcelona academy at a similar time when other talented players were AND the fact they had an academy, managers and president who trusted those young players to become greats. That was a huge risk in itself. If Messi had been elsewhere, he would've been bought by a top club very early in his career anyway (see Ronaldo and Mbappe for example).

You make it sound like Ronaldo was a pauper playing for Stoke and ripping it up he played at Man Utd and Real Madrid - during the period when the two clubs were arguable amongst the biggest in the world.

(...)

I'm not entirely convinced.. Neymar was meant to be the same but what happened there? The drive that Messi and C.Ronaldo have (and maintained over the last 20 years) is out of this world. Mbappe's decision to stay at PSG last summer makes me question that. Even in the final, he was anonymous for 80 minutes, didn't even try and track back or get involved or influence the game.

(...)

Apparently during the entire World Cup Messi was the best player which is fair. Mbappe is 23 and 12 years younger than Messi (about to turn 24).

Why, is he your father ?

He’ll be the best player of the current generation but probably won’t surpass or reach the greatness of Ronaldo or Messi. He needs to leave PSG first, even though winning the Champions League with them would be great for his legacy.

Did you watch Pele play to rank him as the GOAT? Not hating by the way but I don’t understand how people can rate players they have never watched play because they are too young or weren’t allowed to watch games beyond a certain time.

Ronaldo is 2 years older than Messi. He was one of the top scorers in an average Man United team at the age of 36/37. He wasn’t fit for the tournament because he has hardly played for Man United. I’m pretty sure Messi didn’t even score double figure goals last season for PSG.

One of the best posts I have read here for a long time. Ronaldo always delivered in the most crucial moments throughout his career. Especially in the Champions League during his peak.

I think most of these posters missed these games because they had to go to bed because I don’t know why they are ignoring this.

Portugal struggled to produce any top players for about 20 years until Ronaldo arose. Remember he is the most clutch player of all time, like his hat trick against Spain in the World Cup 2018.

Were you an accountant in your previous occultation ? Stats don’t tell half the story.

There will be 100 more Messi’s in our lifetime, but never 1 more Ronaldo.

Messi has been fortunate to play in star-studded teams dominating the ball in Barcelona and PSG. He wouldn’t have done what Ronaldo did at Man United at the age of 36/37 in the Premier League at an average team with Fred and Mctominay as midfielders.

The Real Madrid team Ronaldo played in was definitely worse than Messi’s Barcelona. Kaka only spent a few years there and was a disappointment. Alonso was average and lost his place to a young Casemiro. Rodriguez and Di Maria were decent players. Modric and Kronos were good but can’t be compared to Xavi and Iniesta.

Messi has went missing on most big occasions apart from the 2022 World Cup. For example against Bayern Munich in the Champions League a few years ago, Liverpool in 2019, Roma in 2018, etc. There’s a reason why Messi has less Champions League than Ronaldo in 3 seasons than Messi has won during his entire career.

With Messi finally having won the only prize missing from his collection, has the debate been concluded?

863 club appearances with 706 goals. Played 195 for Argentina and 114 scored.

Club honours

Barcelona

Paris Saint-Germain


Argentina U20


Argentina U23


Argentina


Individual honours

[*]Ballon d'Or/FIFA Ballon d'Or: 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2015, 2019, 2021
[*]FIFA World Player of the Year: 2009
[*]The Best FIFA Men's Player: 2019
[*]European Golden Shoe: 2009–10, 2011–12, 2012–13, 2016–17, 2017–18, 2018–19
[*]FIFA World Cup Golden Ball: 2014, 2022
[*]FIFA Club World Cup Golden Ball: 2009, 2011
[*]Laureus World Sportsman of the Year: 2020
[*]La Liga Best Player: 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11, 2011–12, 2012–13, 2014–15
[*]Pichichi Trophy: 2009−10, 2011–12, 2012−13, 2016–17, 2017−18, 2018–19, 2019–20, 2020–21

Messi has been fortunate to play in star-studded teams dominating the ball in Barcelona and PSG. He wouldn’t have done what Ronaldo did at Man United at the age of 36/37 in the Premier League at an average team with Fred and Mctominay as midfielders.

The Real Madrid team Ronaldo played in was definitely worse than Messi’s Barcelona. Kaka only spent a few years there and was a disappointment. Alonso was average and lost his place to a young Casemiro. Rodriguez and Di Maria were decent players. Modric and Kronos were good but can’t be compared to Xavi and Iniesta.

Messi has went missing on most big occasions apart from the 2022 World Cup. For example against Bayern Munich in the Champions League a few years ago, Liverpool in 2019, Roma in 2018, etc. There’s a reason why Messi has less Champions League than Ronaldo in 3 seasons than Messi has won during his entire career.

[*]
Messi is the best club player of all time, Ronaldo is very closely the next best. In international football, Pele and Maradona played on another level performance wise though. Different eras and different pressures.

[*]
And also different quality across the field. There is now so much money in football that millions are trying to make that their dream every day. How many do you think were playing at a professional level in the 50s to 70s?

No doubt Pele was way better than everyone else around him but it doesn't mean as much when the others probably weren't that good!

The quality of footballers these days are taken from granted. A player in any top league is still quality, nevermind looking at the best of the best. Even then, Messi has managed to stand out above them all for almost 20 years.

Also so much more video analysis these days - oppositions know all about players these days so everyone knew how good Messi was and tried to come up with plans to stop him. Yet he still makes a mockery of them all today.

You can't even find much footage of Pele these days. You think opposition knew what to expect other than hearing he's a quality footballer?