Official 2023 formula one Thread
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Original post by Andrew97
That came out of the blue completlt tbh but makesa bit of sense. They clearly want to make the entry as serious as possible so some GM involvmeent makes sense so you might as well go for more of the more luxery US Brands.
I hope GM do invest proerly but I think having thw Caddilac name on the grid helps
Wonder how two GM brands going against one another would work, Hyundai is very left field tbh no real Motorsport herirage
I hope GM do invest proerly but I think having thw Caddilac name on the grid helps
Wonder how two GM brands going against one another would work, Hyundai is very left field tbh no real Motorsport herirage
On Hyundai it's worth saying that they are a major manufacturer and set up the Motorsport division. It appears that in rallying they won races by 2014 and we're double constructors champions in 2019 and 2020.0
Original post by Andrew97
That came out of the blue completlt tbh but makesa bit of sense. They clearly want to make the entry as serious as possible so some GM involvmeent makes sense so you might as well go for more of the more luxery US Brands.
I hope GM do invest proerly but I think having thw Caddilac name on the grid helps
Wonder how two GM brands going against one another would work, Hyundai is very left field tbh no real Motorsport herirage
I hope GM do invest proerly but I think having thw Caddilac name on the grid helps
Wonder how two GM brands going against one another would work, Hyundai is very left field tbh no real Motorsport herirage
Hyundai has a lot of experience with tin top racing with combustion, hybrids and electric power trains and have won races and championships in European domestic and world championships like touring cars and rallying. They have also hired a lot of staff from BMW m division and amg in the past, so they now a thing or 2 about getting talent. They also have a strong interest on hydrogen cell and combustion engines which is great from a futurist perspective as the uk and EU will be banning hydrocarbon combustion in the 2030s
Original post by Andrew97
That came out of the blue completlt tbh but makesa bit of sense. They clearly want to make the entry as serious as possible so some GM involvmeent makes sense so you might as well go for more of the more luxery US Brands.
I hope GM do invest proerly but I think having thw Caddilac name on the grid helps
Wonder how two GM brands going against one another would work, Hyundai is very left field tbh no real Motorsport herirage
I hope GM do invest proerly but I think having thw Caddilac name on the grid helps
Wonder how two GM brands going against one another would work, Hyundai is very left field tbh no real Motorsport herirage
Its just 1 GM brand - cadillac. Ford is a different thing altogether and Ferrari / alfa / chrysler /dodge is Stellantis (although Stellantis has no control over ferrari however).
If it was chevy vs cadillac, then it would be 2 GM brands
(edited 1 year ago)
I just hope Wolff and James Allison get the Mercedes back fighting for championships this season.
Original post by Andrew97
Good, the postion was downright bizziare. Andretti is not like HRT, Manor etc. They are a serious entry who deserve merit. F1 is desperate to break into new markets, Andretti may help with the US market and Hynudai witth the east Asain.
Were HRT, Caterham / Lotus, and Marussia / Manor all powered by Cowsorth engines ? I wish we could go back to 12 teams and 24 drivers but I remember those 3 teams were always at the back and sometimes didn’t make the 107% rule.
Original post by usernamenumber01
I want Hamilton to get his 8th WDC after being robbed in 2021. The new glimpse of the W14 looks incredible though, it sounds like Mercedes have ironed out the bouncing problems from last season. When the W13 had the right track, it performed very well. So I'm hopeful, and I think Lewis still has enough in the tank to see off Verstappen.
I’m not a Hamilton fan, but like I said, if you’re a real F1 fan, you know who the real 2021 Champion is.
I missed the race in Abu Dhabi but after watching some clips of it this year it was clear that the race wasn’t fair. The race director even used the exact same words the Red Bull team member used when communicating with him!!
Hamilton should have retired after the race and not spoke again. I don’t think he’ll win any more Championships now.
Original post by usernamenumber01
I just hope Wolff and James Allison get the Mercedes back fighting for championships this season.
James Allison left years ago, as did Aldo Costa and Andy Cowell. In anycase, this year should be interesting
Original post by Driving_Mad
Were HRT, Caterham / Lotus, and Marussia / Manor all powered by Cowsorth engines ? I wish we could go back to 12 teams and 24 drivers but I remember those 3 teams were always at the back and sometimes didn’t make the 107% rule.
So the new teams in 2010 were interesting.
8n 2008, f1 was due to have a costcap of 40 million, which is what enticed the new teams to join, however the big teams formed a union /working group called fota which threatened to break away unless their financial and technical demands were met. FIA relented and costcap was abolished but the stipulation remained for the new teams to use returned Cosworth engines, with Cosworth engines last being used in 2006.
The 3 new teams were Lotus, virgin racing and epsilon, however epsilons backers pulled out last minute and they were left with hrt taking over and running on a shoestring.
Lotus racing,, who were running from super aguris old f1 hq were doing so bad that David hunt decided to let Renault use the lotus name after they decided to pull out and were taken over by gravity management. Problem is however, nobody told Tony fernandes this, legal issues ensued and Tony fernandes purchased Caterham cars and used their name.
Virgin racing was essentially the Manor team with major backing from richard Branson... Who decided to stop funding and resulted in the car maker marussia funding them. When marussia stopped, Manor decided to do it themselves.
Ultimately the teams were all cashstrapped and operating below 40m, or a 5th to a tenth of the top teams and less than half of the lower midfield. I think f1 doesn't want that happening again and as such they need to prove they have great business plans but also pay 200 million to the existing teams as a deposit which will be returned after 5 years competition in f1
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by Rakas21
On Hyundai it's worth saying that they are a major manufacturer and set up the Motorsport division. It appears that in rallying they won races by 2014 and we're double constructors champions in 2019 and 2020.0
Yeah they are fiarly major, don't see a huge of them around these parts. They are big in rallying but ill caveat that by saying there's only really 3 manfucaters there (ford and Toyota) being the other ones. An F1 PU is a major step up
Original post by quasa
Hyundai has a lot of experience with tin top racing with combustion, hybrids and electric power trains and have won races and championships in European domestic and world championships like touring cars and rallying. They have also hired a lot of staff from BMW m division and amg in the past, so they now a thing or 2 about getting talent. They also have a strong interest on hydrogen cell and combustion engines which is great from a futurist perspective as the uk and EU will be banning hydrocarbon combustion in the 2030s
I thought the Touring car series they were in were all Combusion engines, apart from ETCR which is electric, id also argue f1 is a huge step up from Rally and Touring cars. Fair enough it will be interesting to see how they go, i fear they make make the same mistakes as Toyota.
Original post by quasa
Its just 1 GM brand - cadillac. Ford is a different thing altogether and Ferrari / alfa / chrysler /dodge is Stellantis (although Stellantis has no control over ferrari however).
If it was chevy vs cadillac, then it would be 2 GM brands
If it was chevy vs cadillac, then it would be 2 GM brands
Ahhh me being dumb
Original post by Driving_Mad
Were HRT, Caterham / Lotus, and Marussia / Manor all powered by Cowsorth engines ? I wish we could go back to 12 teams and 24 drivers but I remember those 3 teams were always at the back and sometimes didn’t make the 107% rule.
I’m not a Hamilton fan, but like I said, if you’re a real F1 fan, you know who the real 2021 Champion is.
I missed the race in Abu Dhabi but after watching some clips of it this year it was clear that the race wasn’t fair. The race director even used the exact same words the Red Bull team member used when communicating with him!!
Hamilton should have retired after the race and not spoke again. I don’t think he’ll win any more Championships now.
I’m not a Hamilton fan, but like I said, if you’re a real F1 fan, you know who the real 2021 Champion is.
I missed the race in Abu Dhabi but after watching some clips of it this year it was clear that the race wasn’t fair. The race director even used the exact same words the Red Bull team member used when communicating with him!!
Hamilton should have retired after the race and not spoke again. I don’t think he’ll win any more Championships now.
Yup, they were all Cosworth, As Qausa has said below they were orginally meant to be coming in with a costcap and if I recall cosworth were meant to be providing engines to multiple new teams (there were other applicants such as USGP and Stefan GP).
In 2009 there was threat of a breakaway series mainly led by Toyota if I recall (their tp was the most militant) and only Williams, FI and the 3 new guys were going to stay in f1. The costcap was dropped with screwed the new teams
Had some good drivers though, although bad at Mclaren Kovalinen was always decent and Glock was solid, best was Bianchi however
Re Abu Dhabi yeah that was just bad, I beleive Masi wanted a final racing lap desperately rather than anything sinister
Original post by quasa
So the new teams in 2010 were interesting.
8n 2008, f1 was due to have a costcap of 40 million, which is what enticed the new teams to join, however the big teams formed a union /working group called fota which threatened to break away unless their financial and technical demands were met. FIA relented and costcap was abolished but the stipulation remained for the new teams to use returned Cosworth engines, with Cosworth engines last being used in 2006.
The 3 new teams were Lotus, virgin racing and epsilon, however epsilons backers pulled out last minute and they were left with hrt taking over and running on a shoestring.
Lotus racing,, who were running from super aguris old f1 hq were doing so bad that David hunt decided to let Renault use the lotus name after they decided to pull out and were taken over by gravity management. Problem is however, nobody told Tony fernandes this, legal issues ensued and Tony fernandes purchased Caterham cars and used their name.
Virgin racing was essentially the Manor team with major backing from richard Branson... Who decided to stop funding and resulted in the car maker marussia funding them. When marussia stopped, Manor decided to do it themselves.
Ultimately the teams were all cashstrapped and operating below 40m, or a 5th to a tenth of the top teams and less than half of the lower midfield. I think f1 doesn't want that happening again and as such they need to prove they have great business plans but also pay 200 million to the existing teams as a deposit which will be returned after 5 years competition in f1
8n 2008, f1 was due to have a costcap of 40 million, which is what enticed the new teams to join, however the big teams formed a union /working group called fota which threatened to break away unless their financial and technical demands were met. FIA relented and costcap was abolished but the stipulation remained for the new teams to use returned Cosworth engines, with Cosworth engines last being used in 2006.
The 3 new teams were Lotus, virgin racing and epsilon, however epsilons backers pulled out last minute and they were left with hrt taking over and running on a shoestring.
Lotus racing,, who were running from super aguris old f1 hq were doing so bad that David hunt decided to let Renault use the lotus name after they decided to pull out and were taken over by gravity management. Problem is however, nobody told Tony fernandes this, legal issues ensued and Tony fernandes purchased Caterham cars and used their name.
Virgin racing was essentially the Manor team with major backing from richard Branson... Who decided to stop funding and resulted in the car maker marussia funding them. When marussia stopped, Manor decided to do it themselves.
Ultimately the teams were all cashstrapped and operating below 40m, or a 5th to a tenth of the top teams and less than half of the lower midfield. I think f1 doesn't want that happening again and as such they need to prove they have great business plans but also pay 200 million to the existing teams as a deposit which will be returned after 5 years competition in f1
Yeah, there was also the breakaway threat which caused the cost cap as mentioned, Williams also used Cosworth in 2010. The fiasco ruined a load of careers, Glcok, Kovalinen had the potential to be solid midfield runners. Trulli, Liuzzi, was om his way out anyway. Di Grassi has shown in Formula E and WEC to be a solid driver. D'ambrosio was decent I think. Best of the bunch was Bianchi who would have raced at Ferrari
Original post by Andrew97
Yeah they are fiarly major, don't see a huge of them around these parts. They are big in rallying but ill caveat that by saying there's only really 3 manfucaters there (ford and Toyota) being the other ones. An F1 PU is a major step up
I thought the Touring car series they were in were all Combusion engines, apart from ETCR which is electric, id also argue f1 is a huge step up from Rally and Touring cars. Fair enough it will be interesting to see how they go, i fear they make make the same mistakes as Toyota.
Ahhh me being dumb
I thought the Touring car series they were in were all Combusion engines, apart from ETCR which is electric, id also argue f1 is a huge step up from Rally and Touring cars. Fair enough it will be interesting to see how they go, i fear they make make the same mistakes as Toyota.
Ahhh me being dumb
1 thing to remember is that with the 2026 rules, ICE will only be allowed to produced 400kW (~536.4bhp) with the ERS producing 350kW (~470bhp), with fuel being restricted based on efficiency.
Whilst this means less powerful cars (slightly), it does make it easier for manufacturers to join as current combustion engines are producing north of 634kW (ferrari rumoured to be 650kW at full strength) and fuel is expected to be reduced to 70kg (98L or 20 gallons) instead of current max of 110kg (~148.5L). In theory cars can produce 600bhp+ with 70kg fuel but I reckon the 400kW limit is a) to entice manufacturers with more readily achievable power figures but b) witha future view for hydrogen combustion engines as its something Ross Brawn and Pat Symonds have been keen to talk about, as well as the fact that turbocharged hydrogen engines produce 90% the power of the equivalent petrol engine per research by Porsche and Toyota (fun fact, toyota is racing hydrogen combustion engines in japanese touring cars and is producing same power as the petrol cars but with better throttle response and lower lag).
Saying that however, when the turbo hybrid engines were 1st announced, the FIA mandated 600hp (~450kW) combustion engines (ICE+Turbo) with 120kW (~161bhp) MGUKs. Whilst the MGUKs were (and still are) 161bhp, the combustion engines in 2014 were all much much more powerful than 600bhp. Renault were the weakest and were still producing 650bhp in 2014, Ferrari 670bhp in 2014 and Mercedes over 715bhp in 2014 (cosworth claimed to have developed a 690bhp engine for 2014 but it was later debunked). The engines in fact gained a lot more power from 2014-2021, with the highest combustion output rumoured to have been around 950bhp for the ferrari SF90H. 2022 the engines did all lose power however due to new fuel composition getting rid of fancy organic chemicals
As such, it would be interesting to see if the combustion components will be more than 400kW in 2026
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by Driving_Mad
Were HRT, Caterham / Lotus, and Marussia / Manor all powered by Cowsorth engines ? I wish we could go back to 12 teams and 24 drivers but I remember those 3 teams were always at the back and sometimes didn’t make the 107% rule.
I’m not a Hamilton fan, but like I said, if you’re a real F1 fan, you know who the real 2021 Champion is.
I missed the race in Abu Dhabi but after watching some clips of it this year it was clear that the race wasn’t fair. The race director even used the exact same words the Red Bull team member used when communicating with him!!
Hamilton should have retired after the race and not spoke again. I don’t think he’ll win any more Championships now.
I’m not a Hamilton fan, but like I said, if you’re a real F1 fan, you know who the real 2021 Champion is.
I missed the race in Abu Dhabi but after watching some clips of it this year it was clear that the race wasn’t fair. The race director even used the exact same words the Red Bull team member used when communicating with him!!
Hamilton should have retired after the race and not spoke again. I don’t think he’ll win any more Championships now.
Yeah I agree, we know who really won that! But yeah I remember watching Abu Dhabi live and it's taken me a year to recover from it haha!
Hamilton still has it I feel, not lost much performance and speed over the years, he showed it in Brazil and a couple of other places; very hard to compete with the speed of the Red Bull in the W13 though.
Andrew's 2022 F1 quiz
Round 1 Quotes- Who said/tweeted it
1)I understand that, with my agreement, Williams Racing have put out a press release this afternoon that I am driving for them next year. This is right and I have signed a contract with Williams for 2023. I will be driving for Williams next year.
2) "Suck my balls, Honey"
3) Who is alleged to have said this "Last year for 2 points I would have ******** the entire paddock"
4) Who said this about Fernando Alonso on leaving Alpine "We won so many things, and that will be part of our history not only Renault group History, But also Fernando history"
5) "Stop inventing, stop inventing"
Round 2- Teams
1) Which team was the last to unveil their livery for 2022
2) Which was the last team to score points in 2022
3)A new rule in 2022 meant all teams had to use a rookie in FP1 for two sessions, but which drivers did multiple teams
4) into 2023 how many teams have an uncanged driver lineup
5) What the highest position Haas were in in the constructors in 2022 at any point
Round 3- Qualifying
1) 4 drivers scored their first pole positon in 2022, who were they
2) 2 drivers appeared in every Q3 session this year, who were they
3) Which driver has the longest streak of making at least Q2
4) Charles Leclerc scored the most poles in 2022, what other season did he top this metric
5) Which team made more Q3 appearences in 2022, Haas or AlphaTuari
Round 4- Races
1) Across the season who gained the most places on the first lap?
2) How many drivers scored their first race wins in 2022
3) Which driver was the last to record a race retirement in 2022, non classified
4) Which one of these drivers did not lead a lap in 2022?; Fernando alonso, Sebastian Vettel, Mick Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton
5) Which race had the smallest winning margin of 2022
Round 5- Misc
1) Max Verstappen wrapped the title up in the rain at Suzuka, when was the last time a wet race decided the title?
2) Fernando Alonso scored his first front row since when at Canada?
3) All teams scored points in 2022, with Willaims last on 8 points. When was the last time the team in last scored at least 8 points
4) The Miami grand prix made its debut in 2022, when was the last time the US had 2 grand prix's
5) In 2023 Nyck De Vries will graduate from formula e, to F1, who is the only other driver to do this
Round 1 Quotes- Who said/tweeted it
1)I understand that, with my agreement, Williams Racing have put out a press release this afternoon that I am driving for them next year. This is right and I have signed a contract with Williams for 2023. I will be driving for Williams next year.
2) "Suck my balls, Honey"
3) Who is alleged to have said this "Last year for 2 points I would have ******** the entire paddock"
4) Who said this about Fernando Alonso on leaving Alpine "We won so many things, and that will be part of our history not only Renault group History, But also Fernando history"
5) "Stop inventing, stop inventing"
Round 2- Teams
1) Which team was the last to unveil their livery for 2022
2) Which was the last team to score points in 2022
3)A new rule in 2022 meant all teams had to use a rookie in FP1 for two sessions, but which drivers did multiple teams
4) into 2023 how many teams have an uncanged driver lineup
5) What the highest position Haas were in in the constructors in 2022 at any point
Round 3- Qualifying
1) 4 drivers scored their first pole positon in 2022, who were they
2) 2 drivers appeared in every Q3 session this year, who were they
3) Which driver has the longest streak of making at least Q2
4) Charles Leclerc scored the most poles in 2022, what other season did he top this metric
5) Which team made more Q3 appearences in 2022, Haas or AlphaTuari
Round 4- Races
1) Across the season who gained the most places on the first lap?
2) How many drivers scored their first race wins in 2022
3) Which driver was the last to record a race retirement in 2022, non classified
4) Which one of these drivers did not lead a lap in 2022?; Fernando alonso, Sebastian Vettel, Mick Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton
5) Which race had the smallest winning margin of 2022
Round 5- Misc
1) Max Verstappen wrapped the title up in the rain at Suzuka, when was the last time a wet race decided the title?
2) Fernando Alonso scored his first front row since when at Canada?
3) All teams scored points in 2022, with Willaims last on 8 points. When was the last time the team in last scored at least 8 points
4) The Miami grand prix made its debut in 2022, when was the last time the US had 2 grand prix's
5) In 2023 Nyck De Vries will graduate from formula e, to F1, who is the only other driver to do this
The Dakar rally (famous last words) is all but over now really. Loeb and the Audi boys have all had major issues giving Toyota's Nassar Al, Atyiah a big 1 hour lead over his teammate
WEC news: ferrari have announced their lined up for the hypercar programme.
Car 50 will be piloted by Antonio Fuoco (3rd in 2016 GP3 season behind leclerc and albon/ highest non-ART driver; highest of 7th in F2), Miguel Molina (3rd in gte Pro last year) and Nicolas Nelson.
Car 51 will be piloted by plitored by the reigning GTE Pro champs James Calado and Alessandro pier guidi, along with Antonio Giovinazzi
Car 50 will be piloted by Antonio Fuoco (3rd in 2016 GP3 season behind leclerc and albon/ highest non-ART driver; highest of 7th in F2), Miguel Molina (3rd in gte Pro last year) and Nicolas Nelson.
Car 51 will be piloted by plitored by the reigning GTE Pro champs James Calado and Alessandro pier guidi, along with Antonio Giovinazzi
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by Andrew97
Car Launches:
February 11th: AlphaTauri
February 13th: Aston Martin
February 13th: McLaren f1 Team
February 14th: Ferrari
February 16th BWT Alpine F1 Team
+ Merc to launch on the 15th.
NB. I keep meaning to do your quiz, but my memory is so bad I am sure most of it would be guesswork!
Original post by Andrew97
For whatever reason, whenever I submit reply, it doesn't
Williams have announced their new team principal and in a bit of a coup have signed... James Vowles from Mercedes! As noted in the press release, Vowles is now only the fourth team principal in Williams history, (46 years).
His voice will be familiar to most from Merc's team radio delivering the more serious strategy guidance.
There was some concern that Williams were leaving things very close to the start of the season to make this appointment, (and he's only joining on 20th of Feb), but I I think this is a statement of intent that they are serious about moving up the grid again. But of course, their last signing from Merc was a bit of a disaster so time will tell
His voice will be familiar to most from Merc's team radio delivering the more serious strategy guidance.
There was some concern that Williams were leaving things very close to the start of the season to make this appointment, (and he's only joining on 20th of Feb), but I I think this is a statement of intent that they are serious about moving up the grid again. But of course, their last signing from Merc was a bit of a disaster so time will tell
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by Admit-One
Williams have announced their new team principal and in a bit of a coup have signed... James Vowles from Mercedes! As noted in the press release, Vowles is now only the third team principal in Williams history, (46 years).
His voice will be familiar to most from Merc's team radio delivering the more serious strategy guidance.
There was some concern that Williams were leaving things very close to the start of the season to make this appointment, (and he's only joining on 20th of Feb), but I I think this is a statement of intent that they are serious about moving up the grid again. But of course, their last signing from Merc was a bit of a disaster so time will tell
His voice will be familiar to most from Merc's team radio delivering the more serious strategy guidance.
There was some concern that Williams were leaving things very close to the start of the season to make this appointment, (and he's only joining on 20th of Feb), but I I think this is a statement of intent that they are serious about moving up the grid again. But of course, their last signing from Merc was a bit of a disaster so time will tell
*fourth team principle
, being pragmatic towards the end Franks title was more ceromonial and it was really a touch of class from Claire with the formal signatures on the name badge.I would actually have loved if Dorilton had kept their chief title as deputy team principle .. it would of been a nice touch to the legend.
It's hard to say how much change one can implement transforming an organisation and re-building will take time, and unfortunately often takes backward steps before you can go forward. It would be nice for Williams to make progress but ultimately they are owned by a PE fund which I imagine is more concerned with getting Williams into saleable condition in line with their exit strategy then truly giving anyone a few years to structure a race team. ... I wonder if Porsche are keeping an eye on the price tag
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