The Student Room Group
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King's College London
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Personal details should be personal but they seem important on the application form

The Telegraph , Allison Pearson :”bright teenagers from middle-class are no longer in a fair fight for university places”.
Are the students from independent school / and upper and middle class discriminated ? The grades the students get and the offers they receive should be show to us ; people need to know why some students with low grades take a place and others not .Even personal details , background, gender, religion , ethnicity should be “personal details but students are forced to write everything about themselves on the application form .
From an anecdotal standpoint (much like Allison Pearson’s), my university course was dominated by wealthy, privately-educated students. State-educated students like me were very much in the minority.

People who attend private schools usually have a significant educational, financial social advantage against those who don’t. So, even if universities have a preference for state-schools (which they overall don’t since privately educated disproportionately outnumber state educated), I wouldn’t call it discrimination. It’s levelling the playing field for pupils who, through no fault of their own, are systemically disadvantaged and had fewer opportunities to begin with.
Waterfront bar, King's College
King's College London
London
Original post by Anonymous
From an anecdotal standpoint (much like Allison Pearson’s), my university course was dominated by wealthy, privately-educated students. State-educated students like me were very much in the minority.

People who attend private schools usually have a significant educational, financial social advantage against those who don’t. So, even if universities have a preference for state-schools (which they overall don’t since privately educated disproportionately outnumber state educated), I wouldn’t call it discrimination. It’s levelling the playing field for pupils who, through no fault of their own, are systemically disadvantaged and had fewer opportunities to begin with.


It depends where you apply (in terms of regional location). The majority on my course were international students and the home students were all pretty poor.
Original post by KirstinTMH
It depends where you apply (in terms of regional location). The majority on my course were international students and the home students were all pretty poor.

I agree, I was mainly thinking of Oxbridge and London.
Reply 4
Original post by KirstinTMH
It depends where you apply (in terms of regional location). The majority on my course were international students and the home students were all pretty poor.

Everybody should know who , where , why students get offers and places . That should be as clear as the rule in every country .Transparency policy means “that decision taken and their enforcement are done in a manner that follows rules and regulation . IT ALSO MEANS that information is FREELY available and DIRECTLY accessible to those who will be affected by such decision and their endorsement
International Student statistics : 2014/2015 =442.225 ; 2020/2021 =605.130 ; in some universities the percentage is over 52 %; we know how many International students are studying in the UK but we have no informations about their grades .
We don t know how many UK students are from Independent schools and from State schools .
Reply 5
Actually, you can find the data here:
https://www.hesa.ac.uk/data-and-analysis/performance-indicators/widening-participation

I think it’s quite comprehensive and transparent; you can even see stats for individual schools.
Original post by Freeyou
Everybody should know who , where , why students get offers and places . That should be as clear as the rule in every country .Transparency policy means “that decision taken and their enforcement are done in a manner that follows rules and regulation . IT ALSO MEANS that information is FREELY available and DIRECTLY accessible to those who will be affected by such decision and their endorsement
International Student statistics : 2014/2015 =442.225 ; 2020/2021 =605.130 ; in some universities the percentage is over 52 %; we know how many International students are studying in the UK but we have no informations about their grades .
We don t know how many UK students are from Independent schools and from State schools .
(edited 1 year ago)
Reply 6
Exactly! What the percentages show?
I have no doubt at all.
.
Original post by Arno11
Actually, you can find the data here:
https://www.hesa.ac.uk/data-and-analysis/performance-indicators/widening-participation

I think it’s quite comprehensive and transparent; you can even see stats for individual schools.
Just the middle classes having a whinge because their previously exclusive institutions are now being attended by the working classes. Best to ignore it for the benefit of maintaining a good blood pressure.
Original post by ROTL94 3
Just the middle classes having a whinge because their previously exclusive institutions are now being attended by the working classes. Best to ignore it for the benefit of maintaining a good blood pressure.

Damn, didn't even notice that you're on your third edition rn.
Original post by ROTL94 3
Just the middle classes having a whinge because their previously exclusive institutions are now being attended by the working classes. Best to ignore it for the benefit of maintaining a good blood pressure.

PRSOM as per usual
"Pearson campaigned in favour of Brexit and in 2016 described Brussels as the jihadist capital of Europe. She has criticised the Gender Recognition Act 2004, and opposed transgender rights. "

That tracks.
Pearson talking utter cobblers as usual.
Original post by Freeyou
Exactly! What the percentages show?
I have no doubt at all.
.

What do you not doubt?
Original post by Freeyou
The Telegraph , Allison Pearson :”bright teenagers from middle-class are no longer in a fair fight for university places”.
Are the students from independent school / and upper and middle class discriminated ? The grades the students get and the offers they receive should be show to us ; people need to know why some students with low grades take a place and others not .Even personal details , background, gender, religion , ethnicity should be “personal details but students are forced to write everything about themselves on the application form .

It’s not just about private vs state school, it’s about the advantages an individual inherently has for their family to afford a private education in the first place.

I’ve worked in a private school in London and deprived state schools up north, and the difference in resources allocated to pupils in and outside of their schools is astonishing. Imagine a bright kid from a wealthy family who has access to smaller class sizes, one-to-one tutoring, specialist coaching for Oxbridge, extra curricular ballet and Latin, Christmas trips to Lapland and a holiday home in the country, and achieves A*AA. Now compare that with an equally bright but poor kid who achieved the same grades but is reluctant to apply for uni because they don’t think it’s for people like them and nobody in their family has gone before. Who would be the first in their school to get into Oxbridge despite having none of the resources, encouragement or school and parental dedication of a privately educated peer. Whose parents work long shifts but can just about pay the rent and have no money left to invest in extra curriculars. Who depended on free school meals to get through the day. In this case it really isn’t the privately educated kids who have an unfair advantage.

Context matters - the poorer student would have had to overcome a lot more obstacles to get the same grades. I think it would be reasonable for a university to choose that pupil over the privately educated one.
Reply 14
Original post by Arno11
It’s not just about private vs state school, it’s about the advantages an individual inherently has for their family to afford a private education in the first place.

I’ve worked in a private school in London and deprived state schools up north, and the difference in resources allocated to pupils in and outside of their schools is astonishing. Imagine a bright kid from a wealthy family who has access to smaller class sizes, one-to-one tutoring, specialist coaching for Oxbridge, extra curricular ballet and Latin, Christmas trips to Lapland and a holiday home in the country, and achieves A*AA. Now compare that with an equally bright but poor kid who achieved the same grades but is reluctant to apply for uni because they don’t think it’s for people like them and nobody in their family has gone before. Who would be the first in their school to get into Oxbridge despite having none of the resources, encouragement or school and parental dedication of a privately educated peer. Whose parents work long shifts but can just about pay the rent and have no money left to invest in extra curriculars. Who depended on free school meals to get through the day. In this case it really isn’t the privately educated kids who have an unfair advantage.

Context matters - the poorer student would have had to overcome a lot more obstacles to get the same grades. I think it would be reasonable for a university to choose that pupil over the privately educated one.


Original post by Freeyou
Everybody should know who , where , why students get offers and places . That should be as clear as the rule in every country .Transparency policy means “that decision taken and their enforcement are done in a manner that follows rules and regulation . IT ALSO MEANS that information is FREELY available and DIRECTLY accessible to those who will be affected by such decision and their endorsement
International Student statistics : 2014/2015 =442.225 ; 2020/2021 =605.130 ; in some universities the percentage is over 52 %; we know how many International students are studying in the UK but we have no informations about their grades .
We don t know how many UK students are from Independent schools and from State schools .

Thank you for the reply ; I taught for 15 years in Italy in the state schools ,taking 2 degrees in education which is my passion! when my family and I decided to move to London I started to study the UK system which is very supportive and democratic with everyone ! My kids attended the state schools just for 1 year ; the quality was really good but Europeans were bullied the whole time and it was not from English people ‘; however we had an amazing experience at the state schools and we are still in touch with many old friends .After Brexit , my kids went to private because , we were waiting for the pre settlement ( Brexit vs Europeans ; nobody talks about that )! Actually , I learnt that also for many English people it was very hard to get a place to the state schools ( to rich , not enough poor , others have more requirements ‘…) .

Our experience at the independent schools was as international as amazing and I have never seen inflated grades or privileged , even , talking about privileged’, I have noticed scorn against white privileged’ ( so bad ) out of the school ( state vs private as the UK media and politicians want, is real in this country ).
Today the state schools have no places enough for everyone ; when politicians push for their own interest to abolish the private education , they should be able to offer a place to ever single student .

Abolish the personal details on the application form and show to us the grades students have when they received the offer should be a real democratic view

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