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Eggy Hog
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#1741
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#1741
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I for one find the level appalling - if you compare GB with countries of similar size and wealth (Italy and France, for example) GB are far behind.
As the country that invented most sports known to man (or popularised them), we should be doing better
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kildare
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#1742
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#1742
Are they really though? How do you justify that statement.
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George-W-Duck
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#1743
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#1743
(Original post by Eggy Hog)
Discuss
I for one find the level appalling - if you compare GB with countries of similar size and wealth (Italy and France, for example) GB are far behind.
As the country that invented most sports known to man (or popularised them), we should be doing better
It's very true that for too long we have underachieved. I think a reason for this is the english way of playing sport seems to be intent on nullifying the opposition rather than showing our true ingrained abilities. I can think of four different sporting examples recently...

1) Football - Even though Sven is Swedish, the set up is primarily english, when playing opponents, sit back and be cautious, use your best players to mark their best players, and kill the game through lack of freedom. The game is boring to watch and it is predictable. We have possibly the best 3 midfielders in the premiership (just ignore viera... ) aswell as Beckham who is an ex runner up in the world player of the year, on paper it is potentially the best midfield in the world, yet we play as if we are San Marino or someone holding on to a 1-0 lead, you dont see Brazil playing ronaldinho in a holding role just to be safe. Even in Keegans side, we werent interesting to watch, id rather win easily 5-2 every match than come from behind to win 2-1 after sitting on our box till the oppostition score then waking up.

2)Cricket - In the recent last one day series game, we had four fielders in attacking positions, making it easy for the batsman to pick up easy runs and lose no wickets, you set a large target after the usual players have failed and flintoff and strauss rescue us, then rely on harmison bowling to the most defensive field ever and expect us to win the game?

3)Rugby Union - Sure, i was delighted we won the world cup, but from a neutral perspective, everyone could see we had the capability to kill them, but instead we ignore the backs for the full game and rely on jonny boy to kick us to victory when a world class set of backs could have won it in normal time, jason robinson touched the ball about 5 times in the game and the only time he got it in an attacking position we scored. Any game of rugby where you are relying on getting a penalty or a chance to have a drop goal rather than score a try makes the game dull. the aussies knew our plan, the whole world knew our plans, so were able to make the game closer than in retrospect it should have been.

4)Tennis - We know 'Tiger' Tim aint the best in the world looking at federer and grosjean, etc, two of the best from the baseline, why then do we make the wimbledon courts slower to suit the baseline players and neglect the two best british players who both serve and volley? When you have an advantage in something, such as a fast court and home support, you make the most of it not give it away.

Well thats my rant over with but i think it really is a most underated reason as to why were crap, you cant blame lack of investment or lack of interest as the british are well known for been some of themost passionate fans in the world.
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Eggy Hog
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#1744
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#1744
(Original post by kildare)
Are they really though? How do you justify that statement.
I can't really justify my statement with facts as such, but it is the general impression I am under, simply from looking at sports results in general.
Take Soccer for example, I don't know much about it but I believe France and Italy are credited with being better teams.
Another example is the ongoing Tour de France; France and Italy both have about 15 cyclists competing while the GB has none.
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Eggy Hog
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#1745
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#1745
(Original post by George-W-Duck)
It's very true that for too long we have underachieved. I think a reason for this is the english way of playing sport seems to be intent on nullifying the opposition rather than showing our true ingrained abilities. I can think of four different sporting examples recently...

1) Football - Even though Sven is Swedish, the set up is primarily english, when playing opponents, sit back and be cautious, use your best players to mark their best players, and kill the game through lack of freedom. The game is boring to watch and it is predictable. We have possibly the best 3 midfielders in the premiership (just ignore viera... ) aswell as Beckham who is an ex runner up in the world player of the year, on paper it is potentially the best midfield in the world, yet we play as if we are San Marino or someone holding on to a 1-0 lead, you dont see Brazil playing ronaldinho in a holding role just to be safe. Even in Keegans side, we werent interesting to watch, id rather win easily 5-2 every match than come from behind to win 2-1 after sitting on our box till the oppostition score then waking up.

2)Cricket - In the recent last one day series game, we had four fielders in attacking positions, making it easy for the batsman to pick up easy runs and lose no wickets, you set a large target after the usual players have failed and flintoff and strauss rescue us, then rely on harmison bowling to the most defensive field ever and expect us to win the game?

3)Rugby Union - Sure, i was delighted we won the world cup, but from a neutral perspective, everyone could see we had the capability to kill them, but instead we ignore the backs for the full game and rely on jonny boy to kick us to victory when a world class set of backs could have won it in normal time, jason robinson touched the ball about 5 times in the game and the only time he got it in an attacking position we scored. Any game of rugby where you are relying on getting a penalty or a chance to have a drop goal rather than score a try makes the game dull. the aussies knew our plan, the whole world knew our plans, so were able to make the game closer than in retrospect it should have been.

4)Tennis - We know 'Tiger' Tim aint the best in the world looking at federer and grosjean, etc, two of the best from the baseline, why then do we make the wimbledon courts slower to suit the baseline players and neglect the two best british players who both serve and volley? When you have an advantage in something, such as a fast court and home support, you make the most of it not give it away.

Well thats my rant over with but i think it really is a most underated reason as to why were crap, you cant blame lack of investment or lack of interest as the british are well known for been some of themost passionate fans in the world.
completely agree
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goldenbarnes
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#1746
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#1746
But will they flop as Boro's other world class players have done?
Flopped? Who flopped? The only genuine world class players we have are Mendieta and Juninho. Although Mendieta had a bad patch around Christmas (like many foreigners in their first season) he excelled for us on many an occassion. Juninho? Our top goalscorer last season? The man who 28,000 people turned up to watch in a reserve game after his comeback from injury?

Every one of our players were quality last season apart from our strikers. With Viduka, and seemingly Hasselbaink on the way, we will have one of the best [or moodiest :confused:] strikeforces in the country, if not whole team.

And it does look like Zenden is also on his way, but probably another one year loan deal.
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material breach
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#1747
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#1747
great avantar too
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kildare
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#1748
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#1748
(Original post by Eggy Hog)
I can't really justify my statement with facts as such, but it is the general impression I am under, simply from looking at sports results in general.
Take Soccer for example, I don't know much about it but I believe France and Italy are credited with being better teams.
Another example is the ongoing Tour de France; France and Italy both have about 15 cyclists competing while the GB has none.
Cycling is huge on the continent. In England it isn't. When was the last time you saw a Frenchman or an Italian run onto a cricket pitch?
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kildare
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#1749
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#1749
(Original post by George-W-Duck)

3)Rugby Union - Sure, i was delighted we won the world cup, but from a neutral perspective, everyone could see we had the capability to kill them, but instead we ignore the backs for the full game and rely on jonny boy to kick us to victory when a world class set of backs could have won it in normal time, jason robinson touched the ball about 5 times in the game and the only time he got it in an attacking position we scored. Any game of rugby where you are relying on getting a penalty or a chance to have a drop goal rather than score a try makes the game dull. the aussies knew our plan, the whole world knew our plans, so were able to make the game closer than in retrospect it should have been.


.
I think this sums up a great deal of the problem. Simply winning the world cup doesn't even seem to be enough. A lot of English fans just seem to have unrealistic expectations.
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85ah11
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#1750
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#1750
Luton at home for us. Not too bad I suppose - a reasonable chance to cause an upset and perhaps draw a Premiership side in the next round. We lost in the first round to Reading last year, and they were the highest placed team in the football ladder we'd played in something like 25 years.
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goldenbarnes
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#1751
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#1751
Thank you

I made it myself (not hard though, admittedly)

..................Schwarzer
Reiziger Southgate Ehiogu Queudrue
......Mendieta Boateng Zenden
...................Juninho
..............Viduka Hasselbaink

Sorry......I'm getting a bit excited..........
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TheWolf
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#1752
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#1752
(Original post by goldenbarnes)
Thank you

I made it myself (not hard though, admittedly)

..................Schwarzer
Reiziger Southgate Ehiogu Queudrue
......Mendieta Boateng Zenden
...................Juninho
..............Viduka Hasselbaink

Sorry......I'm getting a bit excited..........

this looks amazing
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TheWolf
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#1753
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#1753
(Original post by goldenbarnes)
Thank you

I made it myself (not hard though, admittedly)

..................Schwarzer
Reiziger Southgate Ehiogu Queudrue
......Mendieta Boateng Zenden
...................Juninho
..............Viduka Hasselbaink

Sorry......I'm getting a bit excited..........
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/3870711.stm

....................Schwarzer
......Reiziger Southgate Ehiogu Queudrue
............Mendieta..Juninho..Z enden
............Viduka Kluivert Hasselbaink

maybe not
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Eggy Hog
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#1754
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#1754
(Original post by kildare)
Cycling is huge on the continent. In England it isn't. When was the last time you saw a Frenchman or an Italian run onto a cricket pitch?
That's a stupid position to take. When did you last see a Briton excel at pelota or handball?
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stu_uk_aussie
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#1755
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#1755
Following Englands recent triumphs in Tests but defeats in ODIs I have found myself thinking that I as an avid International and County Fan do not really mind that we are bottom of the ODI rankings as long as we do well in the Tests where we are 3rd. Call me old fanshioned but i much more prefer and subsequently care about Tests then ODIs. Maybe this is due to the fact that i disagree with Englands selection policy in the ODI where we seem to want to plan for the World Cup in 2007 by bringing in players who are simply not international standard and for all we love him we keep on playing Darren Gough, but the fact is he's simply not effective or sharp enough at international level anymore. I suppose what im saying as a cricket fan i have suddenly started to ignore our bad ODI results if we do well in the Tests;. All ive got left to say is Bring on the Aussies in 2005.

Glad to see Warwickshire doing great in the county championship
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Eggy Hog
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#1756
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#1756
(Original post by kildare)
I think this sums up a great deal of the problem. Simply winning the world cup doesn't even seem to be enough. A lot of English fans just seem to have unrealistic expectations.
I think you have a point in terms of Rugby, but unrealistic expectations in terms of other sports? I would hope not.
Take Colin Jackson, for example, who has stated he doesn't expect the male Atheletics team to come away from Athens with any medals.
Surely for a country the size of GB, one puny medal is not too much too ask...
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mc_watson87
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#1757
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#1757
I myself am very impressed with the state of British Sport at the moment:

Footie: England move above Italy in Fifa Footie World Rankings, now upto 8th.
Rugger: England won World Cup last year
F1: Button is emerging to be a very good racer.
Tennis: At boys championship, Brit comes runner up at Wimbeldon. And Henman reaching Semis at France, and quarters in WImbeldon
Cricket: So~So
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Eggy Hog
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#1758
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#1758
(Original post by mc_watson87)
I myself am very impressed with the state of British Sport at the moment:

Footie: England move above Italy in Fifa Footie World Rankings, now upto 8th.
Rugger: England won World Cup last year
F1: Button is emerging to be a very good racer.
Tennis: At boys championship, Brit comes runner up at Wimbeldon. And Henman reaching Semis at France, and quarters in WImbeldon
Cricket: So~So
I personally find that track record appallingly meagre - we therefore agree to differ!
Granted world champions at Rugby Union is an achievement - in what other high profile sports to GB (or England, Wales, or Scotland) really excel?
Football? please ...
Tennis? please ...
Most major sports? please ...
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TheWolf
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#1759
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#1759
(Original post by Eggy Hog)
I personally find that track record appallingly meagre - we therefore agree to differ!
Granted world champions at Rugby Union is an achievement - in what other high profile sports to GB (or England, Wales, or Scotland) really excel?
Football? please ...
Tennis? please ...
Most major sports? please ...
its really not that bad, the record
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edufly
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#1760
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#1760
(Original post by TheWolf)
this looks amazing


wait to they see their annual wage bill!

the problem within football is that it is all too easy to sign 'top class' players on fat wages as all you think about is that you'll become a top team, not taking into consideration the amount of expensive flops that have plagued the premiership and have led to the financial troubles present

For example, a Boro fan would be thinking that their team now have a great chance to challenge for the champions league places and a good uefa/FA cup run.
But that has been the danger in the game, over optimism.
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