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blissy
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Or rather the lack of it. I was just listening to Radio 4 and at 1pm the announcer said "For all those going to bed now, sleep tight" (which is bizarre anyway) and then they played the national anthem. I was sat in disbelief! I thought about it and realised that I probably haven't heard the national anthem since the Olympics. It made me think:

Why is a British citizen sat, shocked, because the national anthem was played for no particular reason .

Is there a lack of patriotism in Britain?
Is the lack of overt patriotism a good thing?
Does patriotism encourage a yob culture, positive pride, or pride that leads to more reprehensible actions?

Or is it just me ?

(p.s. I feel like Carrie from SATC with all these questions... I couldn't help but wonder...)

I'd like to hear what everyone thinks, what their experiences are etc. (and I don't want to hear about how dire the national anthem is :p: )
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NDGAARONDI
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(Original post by blissy)
Is there a lack of patriotism in Britain?
Yes. Some people may argue that multiculturalism has helped this, or even EU integration.

(Original post by blissy)
Is the lack of overt patriotism a good thing?
As long as we don't get as patriotic as the USA, which most of us believe is too much, then it will be okay. Reason being is that excess patriotism can be used as a bad thing, such as encouraging racial attacks and so on.

(Original post by blissy)
Does patriotism encourage a yob culture, positive pride, or pride that leads to more reprehensible actions?
Since we already have a lack of patriotism, it's hard to answer this for our own country.
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frost105
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I think its sad when we cant put our flags up without offending someone in the UK. The scottish are hugely patriotic on the whole for being scottish as do the welsh but the english I've found arent.

Though I do wish our natioal anthem had a bit more uumph-I always like Britannia
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NDGAARONDI
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What do you think will be the reaction if I brought in a huge British flag into my courtroom if I was a judge? Reminds me of some various TV programmes where the USA has their own flag plus the state flag.

The Welsh don't seem to be as patriotic as the Scottish, but the biggest ones are in Northern Ireland for either 'side'.
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frost105
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(Original post by NDGAARONDI)
What do you think will be the reaction if I brought in a huge British flag into my courtroom if I was a judge? Reminds me of some various TV programmes where the USA has their own flag plus the state flag.

The Welsh don't seem to be as patriotic as the Scottish, but the biggest ones are in Northern Ireland for either 'side'.
I was thinking about the Irish thing when I was typing. When we were in Prague we went on a tour with soem irish couples and the guide was asking where everyone was from and they said they were Irish and he asked were and they said Belfast and the guide got all confused and told them that Belfast was British.

I'd say the Welsh are less patriotic but theyre still pretty patriotic.

Maybe we could have a medium flag in the courtroom. It is a place for British law
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technik
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there should be a union jack in every classroom.
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platinumki
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(Original post by technik)
there should be a union jack in every classroom.
a Saltire, maybe

They also play the national anthem in the morning - at 5:50 I think - and I always quite enjoy it, it is a rather classy rendition, not just 5 seven-year-old girls on recorder

In Scotland, I can't think patriotism is a good think as it so often leadsto nationalism and xenophobia.
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NDGAARONDI
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(Original post by frost105)
I was thinking about the Irish thing when I was typing. When we were in Prague we went on a tour with soem irish couples and the guide was asking where everyone was from and they said they were Irish and he asked were and they said Belfast and the guide got all confused and told them that Belfast was British.
You also get people getting confused when people say they are British and have an Irish accent. Imagine someone asking Greg Rusedski, and he doesn't know who he is, about his nationality despite having a Canadian accent still.

(Original post by frost105)
I'd say the Welsh are less patriotic but theyre still pretty patriotic.
It depends where you go. If you're in a Plaid Cymru constituency, you might get a few of those people, but not that many in Cardiff.

(Original post by frost105)
Maybe we could have a medium flag in the courtroom. It is a place for British law
Well, the flags of England and Wales will do, since Scotland have their own court system, until an appeal from Scotland reaches the Appellate Committee of the House of Lords.

(Original post by platinumki)
In Scotland, I can't think patriotism is a good think as it so often leadsto nationalism and xenophobia.
You do get people in Scotland like this. They try and use Scottish nationalism as an excuse to hate the English without knowing how union with England has actually benefited them and the country now as a whole. I've noticed this with others in Ireland, and I'm sure you get it in Wales and England too.
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technik
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lets get flags sorted!

there only is one flag, and its flying on buckingham palace.

the english, scottish, welsh, and NI/ulster flags are just regional, like a town/city or county flag.
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platinumki
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(Original post by NDGAARONDI)
You do get people in Scotland like this. They try and use Scottish nationalism as an excuse to hate the English without knowing how union with England has actually benefited them and the country now as a whole. I've noticed this with others in Ireland, and I'm sure you get it in Wales and England too.
Well, you are all rather hateful :rolleyes:

Actually, the original reasons for Scottish resentment of England are quite justifed (no, not battles 700 years ago but all the economic, sneaky stuff that went on round the union of the parliaments.) However, seen as none of the xenophobes know this, I blame Braveheart Obviously now however, independance is not in our best interests. In the words of Brian McNeil...

(Original post by Brian McNeil)
I was listening to the news the other day
I heard a fat politician who had the nerve to say
He was proud to be Scottish, by the way
With the glories of our past to remember
"Here's tae us, wha's like us", listen to the cry
No surrender to the truth and here's the reason why
The power and the glory's just another bloody lie
They use to keep us all in line

For there's no gods and there's precious few heroes
But there's plenty on the dole in the land o the leal
And it's time now to sweep the future clear
Of the lies of a past that we know was never real

Farewell to the heather in the glen
They cleared us off once and they'd do it all again
For they still prefer sheep to thinking men
Ah, but men who think like sheep are even better
There's nothing much to choose between the old laird and the new
They still don't give a damn for the likes of me and you
Just mind you pay your rent to the factor when it's due
And mind your bloody manners when you pay!

And tell me will we never hear the end
Of puir bluidy Charlie at Culloden yet again?
Though he ran like a rabbit down the glen
Leavin better folk than him to be butchered
Or are you sittin in your Council house, dreamin o your clan?
Waiting for the Jacobites to come and free the land?
Try going down the broo with your claymore in your hand
And count all the Princes in the queue!

So don't talk to me of Scotland the Brave
For if we don't fight soon there'll be nothing left to save
Or would you rather stand and watch them dig your grave
While you wait for the Tartan Messiah?
He'll lead us to the Promised Land with laughter in his eye
We'll all live on the oil and the whisky by and by
Free heavy beer! Pie suppers in the sky! -
Will we never have the sense to learn?

That there's no gods and there's precious few heroes
But there's plenty on the dole in the land o the leal
And I'm damned sure that there's plenty live in fear
Of the day we stand together with our shoulders at the wheel
Aye there's no Gods
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yawn
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(Original post by technik)
lets get flags sorted!

there only is one flag, and its flying on buckingham palace.

the english, scottish, welsh, and NI/ulster flags are just regional, like a town/city or county flag.

In the same way that we could fly the EU flag on a national basis and have country flags within the different sub states
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technik
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(Original post by yawn)
In the same way that we could fly the EU flag on a national basis and have country flags within the different sub states
yea...perhaps in france...but do you see it happening here in the UK?

i think not
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NDGAARONDI
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(Original post by yawn)
In the same way that we could fly the EU flag on a national basis and have country flags within the different sub states
The EU is not a nation as such, but England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland can all be argued as nations.
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technik
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(Original post by NDGAARONDI)
The EU is not a nation as such, but England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland can all be argued as nations.
what about northern ireland?
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yawn
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(Original post by technik)
what about northern ireland?
Geographically they are part of the island of Ireland.
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yawn
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(Original post by technik)
yea...perhaps in france...but do you see it happening here in the UK?

i think not
I think we will in the future. In Kent, the EU flag flies alongside the Union Jack on all local government offices.
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technik
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(Original post by yawn)
Geographically they are part of the island of Ireland.
england scotland and wales are on one island too...
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yawn
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(Original post by technik)
england scotland and wales are on one island too...
But they are separate countries - Northern Ireland is not even a province.
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technik
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(Original post by yawn)
But they are separate countries - Northern Ireland is not even a province.
no, they are great britain.
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NDGAARONDI
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(Original post by platinumki)
Actually, the original reasons for Scottish resentment of England are quite justifed (no, not battles 700 years ago but all the economic, sneaky stuff that went on round the union of the parliaments.)
So English resentment of France (Normans), Norway (Vikings) and Italy (Romans) are justified too on the basis of invasions?

(Original post by platinumki)
However, seen as none of the xenophobes know this, I blame Braveheart
Yes. It's amazing how some people use that as gospel. That film was so biased in the battles it was unbelievable. Perhaps it's time for several films to be released by Hollywood to show England fending off the Vikings, Romans and Normans. Think there are films with wars against the French and Spanish already out.

(Original post by platinumki)
Obviously now however, independance is not in our best interests
I wondered if there are really any decent situations where independence is in your best interest. If you weigh up the benefits and disadvantages of independcence, I'm sure the disadvantages would now outweigh the benefits. Just use devolution etc to get what you want now. If the EU ever went federal, you might see the whole the UK and possible Ireland joined as one state or whatever.
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