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~Raphael~
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What do you guys think about the news that Ireland has degraded the value of A Levels in comparison to the Irish Leaving Certificate, and the intimation that this is because Ireland wants to try and 'stem the flow' of 'tuition fee refugees'? Scotland too wants to, for example, charge students from England and Northern Ireland £15,000 for doing a medical degree...Is it fair that English tax-payers are partly paying for Scottish university students but English students are being discouraged? Discuss!
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fishpaste
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would scotland actually be allowed to discriminate their prices within the EU?

if ireland have done that for the reasons given, then it's probably at their own detriment. english universities will enjoy higher prestige through better funding, whilst ireland will fail to attract good pupils, and a separation of prestige would occur.
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peliot
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(Original post by ~Raphael~)
What do you guys think about the news that Ireland has degraded the value of A Levels in comparison to the Irish Leaving Certificate, and the intimation that this is because Ireland wants to try and 'stem the flow' of 'tuition fee refugees'? Scotland too wants to, for example, charge students from England and Northern Ireland £15,000 for doing a medical degree...Is it fair that English tax-payers are partly paying for Scottish university students but English students are being discouraged? Discuss!
to be fair: UCAS re-graded the Irish Leaving Cert so that each of the 6 subjects presented for Irish university admission was two-thirds of an A-level each. The highest points score possible in Ireland is 600 (6x100 for an A1 = over 90% on honours papers) and so Irish universities were OBLIGED to raise the number of A-levels presented to 4 (being two-thirds of 6) with 150 points available per A-level (so that 4x150 = 6x100). It is NOT true to say that "Ireland has degraded the value of A Levels in comparison to the Irish Leaving Certificate". UCAS did the regrading and Ireland responded so as to keep the application system equitable. (The old A-level requirement for Ireland was 3). I don't see why UCAS should regrade a Leaving Cert subject as two-thirds of an A-level, but the Irish should continue to grade an A-level as twice their own L.C. !!!
It has nothing to do with stemming the flow because most A-level applicants to Eire come from Northern Ireland, something the 'south' obviously wants to encourage.
btw: Irish universities like Trinity and UCD are ranked above most russell group unis here, according to OECD. (and even small universities like Galway are on par with e.g. Southampton for marine biology / oceanography), and the Irish education system, though fiercely competitive with such a young population and so few universities, is reckoned one of the best performing in the world (OECD again). [I actually think we are better in the UK becuase we don't throw students on the scrap heap if they're not academic; but that's what OECD say. I did a project on the 3 education systems for my A-levels].

The Scottish case is a different argument; 'we' English taxpayers pay for Scotland and are governed as a single country.
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~Raphael~
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(Original post by peliot)
to be fair: UCAS re-graded the Irish Leaving Cert so that each of the 6 subjects presented for Irish university admission was two-thirds of an A-level each. The highest points score possible in Ireland is 600 (6x100 for an A1 = over 90% on honours papers) and so Irish universities were OBLIGED to raise the number of A-levels presented to 4 (being two-thirds of 6) with 150 points available per A-level (so that 4x150 = 6x100). It is NOT true to say that "Ireland has degraded the value of A Levels in comparison to the Irish Leaving Certificate". UCAS did the regrading and Ireland responded so as to keep the application system equitable. (The old A-level requirement for Ireland was 3). I don't see why UCAS should regrade a Leaving Cert subject as two-thirds of an A-level, but the Irish should continue to grade an A-level as twice their own L.C. !!!
It has nothing to do with stemming the flow because most A-level applicants to Eire come from Northern Ireland, something the 'south' obviously wants to encourage.
btw: Irish universities like Trinity and UCD are ranked above most russell group unis here, according to OECD. (and even small universities like Galway are on par with e.g. Southampton for marine biology / oceanography), and the Irish education system, though fiercely competitive with such a young population and so few universities, is reckoned one of the best performing in the world (OECD again). [I actually think we are better in the UK becuase we don't throw students on the scrap heap if they're not academic; but that's what OECD say. I did a project on the 3 education systems for my A-levels].

The Scottish case is a different argument; 'we' English taxpayers pay for Scotland and are governed as a single country.

Thanks for the clarification; you'll note though that I said the cause was 'intimated' and 'degraded' from my viewpoint was not meant to be an emotive word, merely a true description. Unfortunately the article made no mention of UCAS as the culprit :rolleyes:

EDIT: They're looking into seeing whether they can bring about quotas for people outside the 'republic', but I'm not sure if they include Northern Ireland (the Northern Counties), an emotive distinction....
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peliot
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(Original post by ~Raphael~)
Thanks for the clarification; you'll note though that I said the cause was 'intimated' and 'degraded' from my viewpoint was not meant to be an emotive word, merely a true description. Unfortunately the article made no mention of UCAS as the culprit :rolleyes:

EDIT: They're looking into seeing whether they can bring about quotas for people outside the 'republic', but I'm not sure if they include Northern Ireland (the Northern Counties), an emotive distinction....
They are NOT looking to introducing quotas for other EU students, which is illegal. Quotas cannot apply anyway to NI (the Irish constitution allows full citizenship to anyone born in NI). Anyway, most A-level student present 4 A-levels nowadays anyway; what's the problem?
I should also say that 'Republic of Ireland universities' are delaying the introduction of the new UCAS-driven comparative tariff for a year so as not to disadvantage A-level students. Sadly, UCAS tariffs on students from Eire came into force immediately. So no reciprocation there then.
I would point to e.g. the Clare College website, which requires RoI applicants to present their best 7 LC subjects, even though they only do 6 (mostly). Respectfully, I think you should look elsewhere for 'discrimination'.
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Toni Mag
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My info is that Peliot is correct re the RoI universities. I applied for TCD and UCD and was made very, very welcome. Not only that, but they would arrange grants and 'fee-relief' for me if needed. And they offered me travel & book grants for my 4 years! Apparently, this is standard fare for UK students already there, who i spoke to over two days. They say that there was absolutely no trouble with being English or anything. Dublin is so laid-back and confident now.
Unfortunately for us UK students, the RoI system is just a points system. No benefit to any personal statement or extra-curr activities. The entry points are published in the newspapers in August after exam results are known and you're in or you're not! No conditional offers. It's so competitive. [Actually, I could see the point of a small country like RoI being careful about its admissions if the only basis for some applications is because it's cheaper!

But the Scot thing annoys me! Scotland is still part of our nation. what's with them?
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