Homophobia: valid opinion or mindless prejudice? Watch

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Ben.S.
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#261
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#261
(Original post by technik)
the animal question is hard to use. many animals possess intelligence, reasoning, the ability to learn, much like ourselves. in my eyes viewing the behaviour of animals doesnt add any weight the either side of the coin, natural or unnatural.

myself personally, having a non fully cureable disorder and other ailments/imperfections like everyone added to my opinions/beliefs in general would always have me going for the "eradication" option.
Well, you assume then that you know 'the meaning of life' and all sorts of other philosophical bits and bobs by classing it as a disorder. That's implying that there is order in the first place and, also, that there should be some sort of 'purpose' to life. Lots of people argue, understandably that we are just here to procreate. Are we? If a species couldn't procreate, then it wouldn't exist - but that really wouldn't be doing any harm to anything (what is harm, anyway? Just a made up concept?). Procreation is just a consequence of existance, and may or may not be the purpose of it (well, that's my take on it, anyway).

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annabellewalter
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May I just but in and apologise. Sorry if the poll and queation are bad but it was my first thread here and I was very nervous. Nevertheless it has provoked the discussions that I was interested in, and touched upon some ( in my humble opinion) interesting points. Sorry.
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Rich
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#263
(Original post by technik)
myself personally, having a non fully cureable disorder and other ailments/imperfections like everyone added to my opinions/beliefs in general would always have me going for the "eradication" option.
You want to eradicate homosexuals because you don't think it's natural (I'd be interested if you could define the semantics of that word btw)?

Homosexuality is no more an imperfection than a predisposition for vegetables over meat.
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Jump
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#264
(Original post by rahaydenuk)
Tell me something, do you fantasise about Adolf Hitler?
I may be taking this completely out of context has I haven't read the whole thread but...'WTF'?
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yawn
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(Original post by [email protected])
for a gay man to hide it and marry a woman would be completely wrong. Not only would he be unhappy, but he'd be living a lie.
I'd say that the woman should be the one who would be unhappy!! Not only has she been betrayed but has put her trust and potential happiness in the hands of someone who has considered their own needs first - that is not love - that is ego!

And if they had a family? - the repercussions are enormous - involving many people, not just the homosexual, in life-long 'baggage'. Why? Because the homosexual was using a woman to try to prove something to himself - totally, completely and utterly selfish imo.
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technik
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(Original post by veryjammy)
But what would eradication achieve? This is completely different to beastiality or paedophilia, this isn't harming anybody surely? Isn't there something reminiscent of the Aryan race ideal in trying to achieve a uniform perfect society in which everyone is 'normal'?

And using me as an example - with ur eradication, I wouldnt be here. Am I not worthy of a life because I'm gay. I contribute as much as anyone else but I'm attracted to men. Why is my life worth any less? I can't reproduce but then many straight people choose not to. Would the world be better if I wasn't here?
you would be here. you said you believed it was something to do with hormone imbalances, if so that could be controlled or diminished? the next question is would you take the treatment if your assertion was found to be correct?

i was using the conditions and illnesses i have as an example in this case and my own personal opinion.
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technik
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(Original post by rahaydenuk)
You want to eradicate homosexuals because you don't think it's natural (I'd be interested if you could define the semantics of that word btw)?

Homosexuality is no more an imperfection than a predisposition for vegetables over meat.
you'll want to learn how to read and when you do, try my post again

veryjammy and I were having an interesting discussion and you'll notice we were talking in theory about finding "disorders" and what would happen as a result. its my view a "disorder" is a flaw that needs remedied or cured.
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Ben.S.
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(Original post by technik)
you'll want to learn how to read and when you do, try my post again

veryjammy and I were having an interesting discussion and you'll notice we were talking in theory about finding "disorders" and what would happen as a result. its my view a "disorder" is a flaw that needs remedied or cured.
Technik, you'll want to learn to type in meaningful English before anyone can read something how you intend:

myself personally, having a non fully cureable disorder and other ailments/imperfections like everyone added to my opinions/beliefs in general would always have me going for the "eradication" option.
Could you explain what you mean a little better, please - since you seem to have confused everyone.

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technik
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(Original post by Ben.S.)
Could you explain what you mean a little better, please - since you seem to have confused everyone.

Ben
it was in reference to the tangent jammy and I were on talking about recognised disorders. i said i, like many people, have illnesses and disorders which i would rather i didnt have. ideally no one would have them either.
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Ben.S.
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(Original post by technik)
it was in reference to the tangent jammy and I were on talking about recognised disorders. i said i, like many people, have illnesses and disorders which i would rather i didnt have. ideally no one would have them either.
Right, so you think everyone which a non-curable disorder shouldn't be allowed to come into being, then?

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technik
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(Original post by Ben.S.)
Right, so you think everyone which a non-curable disorder shouldn't be allowed to come into being, then?

Ben
i think the cures should be found.
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technik
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(Original post by [email protected])
Well unfortunately that's not always possible, or at least not yet. Science is working at a greater rate than ever before to find cures for different diseases.
i certainly hope it cures all disease/illness/disorder/whatever else you want to call it in my life time. it would be good to see its effect.
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Ben.S.
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#273
(Original post by technik)
i think the cures should be found.
So, you can see why everyone would have been confused, can't you? That isn't really a novel opinion - 'I reckon we should cure all the problems'. Was that a political answer? How, exactly, do you 'cure' someone with an incurable condition (Downes, for example)? You can't. Were you talking about eradication of what you see as 'disorders' as being distinct from eradication of people already living with said disorders? If that is the case, then the former is implausible (in most cases by pure definition) and the latter is prevention, rather than cure.

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yawn
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(Original post by [email protected])
That's the point I was trying to make originally. I wasn't condoning a gay man to marry a woman - I was saying that that would be wrong, because he would be living a lie.

The woman in the relationship wouldn't be unhappy until/if ever she found out. My point was that it is wrong for a gay man to marry a woman and pretend to be straight just for the sake of an easier life and respectability.
I was addressing your comment that a gay man would be unhappy in living a lie.

My concern was for the innocent woman in this case who vowed to love, cherish and honour this man in sickness and in health until parted by death. I think her distress is more marked because of the action of a homosexual man marrying her in the first place, knowing that he loved other men, and seeking to attain respectability in the eyes of society by way of using a woman to gain that respectability. That is abhorrent and totally selfish.

The woman could easily be unhappy in the relationship without confirmation that her husband is homosexual. Women, in particular, are far more tuned into feelings and would have a strong feeling that her husband was not 100% committed to her. She would seek reassurance from him and in giving this reassurance the man compounds the wrong doing.

My advice to any male who thinks he may have homosexual inclinations despite enjoying a healthy sex life with females is, never get married!
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veryjammy
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#275
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(Original post by technik)
you would be here. you said you believed it was something to do with hormone imbalances, if so that could be controlled or diminished? the next question is would you take the treatment if your assertion was found to be correct?

i was using the conditions and illnesses i have as an example in this case and my own personal opinion.
The most convincing theory I have seen relates to hormonal imbalances in the womb, not necessarily hormonal imbalances in me as a living person. Like I said, a study showed that gay men's hypothalamus bore a much greater resemblance to women's than straight men's, I don't think this is something that could be corrected after birth.

But if you believe it could somehow be corrected before birth, isn't that getting into dangerous 'designer baby' territory?
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technik
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(Original post by veryjammy)
The most convincing theory I have seen relates to hormonal imbalances in the womb, not necessarily hormonal imbalances in me as a living person. Like I said, a study showed that gay men's hypothalamus bore a much greater resemblance to women's than straight men's, I don't think this is something that could be corrected after birth.

But if you believe it could somehow be corrected before birth, isn't that getting into dangerous 'designer baby' territory?
yep its very much designer baby territory. but unlike making cosmetic changes etc which causes uproar, i'd only be interested in its use for correcting errors.

i wonder how many accidents would be prevented if everyone had perfect eyesight for example
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Ben.S.
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(Original post by veryjammy)
The most convincing theory I have seen relates to hormonal imbalances in the womb, not necessarily hormonal imbalances in me as a living person. Like I said, a study showed that gay men's hypothalamus bore a much greater resemblance to women's than straight men's, I don't think this is something that could be corrected after birth.

But if you believe it could somehow be corrected before birth, isn't that getting into dangerous 'designer baby' territory?
If it isn't purely genetic (and it probably isn't), then I doubt it. Designer babies are designed in vitro, before being subjected to any hormonal imbalances etc. I think the issue would be more to do with abortion, if there was some way of diagnosing a 'gay brain' in vivo. I'm not sure when you'd be able to make such a diagnosis, though - it might be pretty late on in development, in which case I doubt abortion would not be an option. Parents would just be able to know that their child is going to be gay. That would undoubtedly cause problems, and I suppose you have to debate the value of that sort of knowledge anyway. What would it acheive?

Ben
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veryjammy
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#278
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(Original post by technik)
yep its very much designer baby territory. but unlike making cosmetic changes etc which causes uproar, i'd only be interested in its use for correcting errors.

i wonder how many accidents would be prevented if everyone had perfect eyesight for example
But what would actually be achieved by thereoretically making sure babies eterosexual? Again it goes back to the point that if the only inherent problems are 'society's view' then should the individual bear the brunt? Because homosexuals aren't really doing anything harmful, nor is their sexuality having a severe impact on either their own lives or others in the majority of cases
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yawn
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#279
"Homosexuality can be cured - it is not a sexual identity but a developmental disorder".

Take a look at this link and give your opinions

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/st...183596,00.html
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veryjammy
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(Original post by Ben.S.)
If it isn't purely genetic (and it probably isn't), then I doubt it. Designer babies are designed in vitro, before being subjected to any hormonal imbalances etc. I think the issue would be more to do with abortion, if there was some way of diagnosing a 'gay brain' in vivo. I'm not sure when you'd be able to make such a diagnosis, though - it might be pretty late on in development, in which case I doubt abortion would not be an option. Parents would just be able to know that their child is going to be gay. That would undoubtedly cause problems, and I suppose you have to debate the value of that sort of knowledge anyway. What would it acheive?

Ben
I personally don't know whether nurture plays a part, would the way your mother behaved towards you really cause you to become aroused by men? And what of 2 brothers being raised together, 1 straight 1 gay?
And diagnosing it, but not being able to cure it would be dangerous. I suspect a lot of parents would bring them up to be 'manly' and 'straight' and try and force a overtly heteosexual lifestyle upon them, as far as such a thing is possible with children. I can't see it would do anyone involved any good whatsoever
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