Homophobia: valid opinion or mindless prejudice? Watch

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annabellewalter
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#61
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#61
I don't mind if you would rather not say. But why shouldn't it be encouraged?
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Howard
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#62
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(Original post by annabellewalter)
I don't mind if you would rather not say. But why shouldn't it be encouraged?
What are you talking about?

Good God! What sort of father would say to his son "I'd really avoid women if I were you, marriage, kids and all that nonsense......I'd really encourage you to find yourself a well hung man with a moustache" :rolleyes:
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annabellewalter
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#63
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Because if that's the way you feel, and if you just aren't hetrosexual then you should be encouraged to express that.............

Fathers dont give advice on sexuality like a career choice, it's already there.
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Zarathustra
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#64
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Imho, homophobia (and in order to avoid confusion I shall define this as dislike/hatred of "gays" because they're gay) is by definition prejudice and therefore invalid as a way of judging people.

To dislike gay people is to make a general assumption about a heterogeneous group of people based on one shared characteristic that does not determine the rest of the their personality. Just like racism generalises hatred on the basis of colour.
That's why it's "prejudice".
It's "invalid" because sexual orientation tells you hardly anything about a person - so the inference from "they fancy the same sex" to "they are deserving of my hatred" is invalid.

I don't understand how it can be seen as reasonable to have a strong dislike of person-X (to the extent that you would proclaim them to be "disgusting" and pass laws discriminating against them) when you have never met X and know nothing about them other than their sexual orientation.
And for "sexual orientation" you could substitute race, religion, gender, etc.

ZarathustraX
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Howard
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(Original post by annabellewalter)
Because if that's the way you feel, and you just aren't hetrosexual then you should be encouraged to express that.............

Fathers dont give advice on sexuality like a career choice, it's already there.
I see what you mean. The person in question has already self identified himself/herself as homosexual. That's obviously a somewhat different situation than I was thinking about.
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annabellewalter
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#66
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I think the thing is, you have homosexual tendencies or you don't. No one is encouraging straight people to be gay, it's about encouraging gay people to feel comfortable with who they are, and feel accepted within their society and be able to express their sexuality without fear of persecution.
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Zarathustra
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(Original post by annabellewalter)
I don't mind if you would rather not say. But why shouldn't it be encouraged?
I think if sexual orientation is not a matter of choice (which research increasingly shows to be the case) then the concept of "encouragement" is irrelevant - if people are gay, no lack of encouragement is going to make them straight, and encouragement to be gay isn't going to "turn" hets.
It's quite worrying, imho, that in order not to "encourage" it you get things like section28 etc. in educational situations - it's horrible that there are young kids discovering themselves to be gay, not knowing what to do and being unable to get any advice etc. Forced to sit through SE lessons that are largely irrelevant to them, basically informed that they don't exist by the curriculum, etc.
But that's moved off the point somewhat...

ZarathustraX

EDIT: Annabellewalter, you beat me to it! Sorry all. (Nice post, btw).
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Howard
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#68
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(Original post by annabellewalter)
I think the thing is, you have homosexual tendencies or you don't. No one is encouraging straight people to be gay, it's about encouraging gay people to feel comfortable with who they are, and feel accepted within their society and be able to express their sexuality without fear of persecution.
Sounds fair enough. As long as they don't express their sexuality at the adjacent table in a restaurant. It's as much as I can bear to watch a hetero couple slobbering over one another, I don't know if I could take a couple of bearded biker types swapping spit while I dine.
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kildare
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#69
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well put.
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annabellewalter
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#70
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How can homosexuals ever feel equal when they are not considered equal?
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Tyler Durden
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#71
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(Original post by Zarathustra)
Imho, homophobia (and in order to avoid confusion I shall define this as dislike/hatred of "gays" because they're gay) is by definition prejudice and therefore invalid as a way of judging people.

To dislike gay people is to make a general assumption about a heterogeneous group of people based on one shared characteristic that does not determine the rest of the their personality. Just like racism generalises hatred on the basis of colour.
That's why it's "prejudice".
It's "invalid" because sexual orientation tells you hardly anything about a person - so the inference from "they fancy the same sex" to "they are deserving of my hatred" is invalid.

I don't understand how it can be seen as reasonable to have a strong dislike of person-X (to the extent that you would proclaim them to be "disgusting" and pass laws discriminating against them) when you have never met X and know nothing about them other than their sexual orientation.
And for "sexual orientation" you could substitute race, religion, gender, etc.

ZarathustraX
Good post. I think you put that pretty clearly!
It's very true, some people who happily bandy about homophobic comments would be mortified to be put in the same category as racists. At the end of the day, we are not entirely defined by our sexuality or our race. Therefore, to hate somebody for one such reason is foolish in the extreme.
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Gaz031
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(Original post by annabellewalter)
I don't mind if you would rather not say. But why shouldn't it be encouraged?
I don't think it is right for people to be influenced into a particular sexuality that will have very significant effects on your future.

Lets be honest, not a great many people are in favour of homosexuality and it can only serve to be a handicap to the way you live your life as you'll constantly be discriminated against.

It's also not at all natural. It's not the way nature intended us to be and many feel threatened or mildly wary of homosexuals (males towards males particuarly).
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Howard
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#73
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(Original post by annabellewalter)
How can homosexuals ever feel equal when they are not considered equal?
I think they are generally considered equal to be honest. Don't make this a "victim issue" because most gays don't so neither should you.
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Gaz031
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(Original post by annabellewalter)
I think the thing is, you have homosexual tendencies or you don't. No one is encouraging straight people to be gay, it's about encouraging gay people to feel comfortable with who they are, and feel accepted within their society and be able to express their sexuality without fear of persecution.
I'll admit that i feel rather uncomfortable being around gay people but i wouldn't go out of my way to offend them. I think that's a well thought out post, though i'd rather never see or heard about them expressing their sexuality.
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Howard
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#75
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(Original post by Gaz031)
I'll admit that i feel rather uncomfortable being around gay people but i wouldn't go out of my way to offend them.
Oh, nothing wrong with a few Freddie Mercury jokes.
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annabellewalter
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#76
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#76
How on earth can you be influenced into a sexuality? And for all the 'significant effects on your future' i think being emotionally and psychologically repressed and being forced to believe that your very existence is 'unnatural' is the greatest handicap a human could have. Why feel threatened? What do you think they are going to do? Rape you? How is it rationally possible to be threatened by a man who fancies other men?
'(males towards males particuarly)'
What on earth is this? Men worried other men will fancy them just because they are gay? Do these 'men' assume all women fancy them?
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annabellewalter
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#77
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I am not turning this into a victim issue? Why do you assume I am not gay?
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Gaz031
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#78
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(Original post by annabellewalter)
How on earth can you be influenced into a sexuality?
Young people could be. If the alternative sexuality becomes widely accepted or encouraged in some circumstances I think this will take advantage of their vunerability.

And for all the 'significant effects on your future' i think being emotionally and psychologically repressed and being forced to believe that your very existence is 'unnatural' is the greatest handicap a human could have.
Perhaps. It depends entirely on how sexual the person is.

Why feel threatened? What do you think they are going to do? Rape you?
Not particuarly. Most males seem to either feel wary of homosexuals or violent towards them. Which would you rather people be?

How is it rationally possible to be threatened by a man who fancies other men?
As in physically threatened, not on the courtship side of things.

'(males towards males particuarly)'
What on earth is this? Men worried other men will fancy them just because they are gay? Do these 'men' assume all women fancy them?
Surely you've noticed that women are much more tolerant to the alternative sexuality in general.
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Aitch
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#79
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I'm not sure if you think prejudice has to be mindless... It is frequently quite the opposite.

Aitch
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Adhsur
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#80
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"Valid opinion". How can an opinion be "valid"? Sorry if that's already been mentioned, can't be bothered going through the thread!
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