Homophobia: valid opinion or mindless prejudice? Watch

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Zarathustra
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#101
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#101
(Original post by yawn)
Why is the word 'homophobia' used to describe those people who view same genital sex as unnatural?
It's not. I know several gay people who see gay-sex as "unnatural" in some sense (though they don't see this as a reason not to do it).

Homophobia literally means fear of, but it's more general accepted use is hatred of, gays. People can hate gays without thinking they're "unnatural", and it's very easy to see it as "unnatural" without hating them.

So to sum up... the word 'homophobia' is not "used to describe those people who view same genital sex as unnatural".

ZarathustraX

EDIT: Out of interest, in what way do you see the word 'gay' as having "been misappropriated to describe something else"? Or is it simply that it used to mean 'happy'?
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A0307
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#102
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#102
(Original post by Zarathustra)
I said that the reasons somebody uses to support an opinion should be verifiable. Obviously opinions themselves cannot be "verified", for the reasons that you suggest.
To clarify: the opinion "Homosexuals are all immoral pr*cks and therefore should be shot" is unverifiable, but in support of it someone may offer the reason "because they all abuse innocent children" - the reason, whilst clearly false, is verifiable.
To go back to my original point, I think that if the reasons that a person gives for their opinion are true (which presupposes that they may be verified), and actually support their view, then their opinion is valid. Possibly not correct, but valid.
Does that make sense now?

To give another example opinion, proposed by your good self:

If it is your opinion that [read above], then that is a valid opinion if the verifiable facts of the situation lend support to your hypothesis. Ie. If all people born at five past eleven on the second tuesday after Easter actually were gay. Personally, I doubt any research that you could do on such people would support this...
:p:

ZarathustraX
What? You're rambling.

As for your second point:

"that is a valid opinion if the verifiable facts of the situation lend support to your hypothesis. Ie. If all people born at five past eleven on the second tuesday after Easter actually were gay."

No. If that was the case then my "opinion" would be a statement of fact, and therefore not an opinion atall, as I said before. You cannot "validate" an opinion!
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Sam2k
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#103
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#103
(Original post by annabellewalter)
In my personal opinion homophobia is disgusting, but I wanna know what you all think, do I have the right to hate it? What do you think?
Yes, you have a right to hate homosexuality.
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Mishael
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#104
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#104
No. If that was the case then my "opinion" would be a statement of fact, and therefore not an opinion atall, as I said before. You cannot "validate" an opinion!
But surely an opinion equates to a belief, and you CAN validate a belief. If the premises you are using to support your belief can be proved false, does this not prove the belief itself invalid?
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PQ
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#105
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#105
(Original post by Moncal)
Yes, you have a right to hate homosexuality.
That wasn't what she was asking
(Original post by annabellewalter)
In my personal opinion homophobia is disgusting, but I wanna know what you all think, do I have the right to hate it? What do you think?
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Sam2k
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#106
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#106
(Original post by PQ)
That wasn't what she was asking
Sorry, I didn't read close enough. So homophobia is a valid "opinion".
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Jamie
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#107
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#107
(Original post by calumc)
Oh quit your whining you.

They're all perfectly valid opinions. If it's my opinion that people will be gay if they're born at five past eleven on the second tuesday after Easter then so be it, and you'd have to try pretty hard to "prove" me wrong!
like i said "but at the same time you can't ever disprove it with 100% so the opinion still stands"
whats the problem?
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Jamie
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#108
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#108
(Original post by calumc)
In which case you appear to have misinterpreted it. I have argued with him before and he comes across as a whiney *****. Thus my assertion has everything to do with his manner, and nothing to do with his opinion.
charmed I'm sure.
If memory serves you were refusing to believe any of the scientific evidence that shows circumcision does more good than harm.
pray do tell what is wrong with my manner in this thread?
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Zarathustra
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#109
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#109
(Original post by calumc)
What? You're rambling.

As for your second point:

"that is a valid opinion if the verifiable facts of the situation lend support to your hypothesis. Ie. If all people born at five past eleven on the second tuesday after Easter actually were gay."

No. If that was the case then my "opinion" would be a statement of fact, and therefore not an opinion atall, as I said before. You cannot "validate" an opinion!
No, you misunderstand me. I didn't say an opinion was valid if the facts proved it. That, as you say, would make it no longer an opinion but something much more concrete. However, if there are certain things that support an opinion, then it is a more valid opinion than one based on no supporting evidence.

I second what Mishael said, also.

ZarathustraX
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A0307
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#110
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#110
(Original post by Zarathustra)
No, you misunderstand me. I didn't say an opinion was valid if the facts proved it. That, as you say, would make it no longer an opinion but something much more concrete. However, if there are certain things that support an opinion, then it is a more valid opinion than one based on no supporting evidence.
I do not misunderstand you, and I think you'll find I didn't say anything about "proving" either. What are the "certain things" that may support an opinion? Surely this is a matter of opinion also?

The only opinions I will accept as being truly "invalid" are those for which there is absolutely no chance of any supporting evidence or argument whatsoever. However, for any sensible argument this simply isn't the case.
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A0307
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#111
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#111
(Original post by Mishael)
But surely an opinion equates to a belief, and you CAN validate a belief. If the premises you are using to support your belief can be proved false, does this not prove the belief itself invalid?
No. All you have demonstrated is that an opinion/belief can be INvalidated. Disproving something only requires a single example where it doesn't work, but proving it requires it to be shown that it works all of the time, and in the real world this can NEVER be done to 100% accuracy.
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TKR
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#112
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#112
(Original post by Howard)
I think you're painting a portrait of gays as feeble limp-wristed types who spend their entire lives being abused in all sorts of awful ways. I think this relies more on a Mr.Humphreys type illusion than any reality.

Gays are just as capable as standing up for themselves as any other minority. If you call a black man "****** boy" you can expect a good hiding. And there are lots of gays than would punch your lights out if you called then a "******" They are not all effeminate hairdressers as you seem to imply.
Please note the fact that I used the word many not all. As a gay perosn myself that is the last thing I would want to imply. But the sad fact is that a lot of gay people (the majority, i think you will find) do go through some sort of the kind of abuse I mentioned. Trust me on this.
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Mishael
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#113
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#113
(Original post by calumc)
No. All you have demonstrated is that an opinion/belief can be INvalidated. Disproving something only requires a single example where it doesn't work, but proving it requires it to be shown that it works all of the time, and in the real world this can NEVER be done to 100% accuracy.
Yes, but this is true for everything. We can never be 100% certain that ANY of our beliefs are true, even the ones we base our entire lives on.

However, this doesn't mean we have to accept every belief as equally valid like you suggested before. If a belief has no decent evidence supporting it, we CAN say it is invalid. If you really held the opinion that 'people will be gay if they're born at five past eleven on the second tuesday after Easter', it would just not be a valid belief.
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Zarathustra
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#114
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#114
(Original post by calumc)
I do not misunderstand you, and I think you'll find I didn't say anything about "proving" either. What are the "certain things" that may support an opinion? Surely this is a matter of opinion also?

The only opinions I will accept as being truly "invalid" are those for which there is absolutely no chance of any supporting evidence or argument whatsoever. However, for any sensible argument this simply isn't the case.
Aaargh, this debate is spiralling into absurdity!

1) No, you didn't say anything about "proving" - what you did say was that if all people born at five past eleven on the second tuesday after Easter actually were gay, then you're opinion would be a fact, and I took this to imply that you considered the evidence to have proven the opinion to be correct and true (ie. factual). My apologies if I was not at liberty to draw such an inference.

2) I agree that any opinion with no remote possibility of any supporting evidence would be invalid. However, I fail to see why you can't then see this on a sliding scale - the more evidence there is to support an opinion, the more valid that opinion may be considered. As Mishael says, the fact that we can never prove anything 100% does not mean that all opinions are therefore equally valid.
This leads back to the point made in post87: that a valid opinion would be "justifiable" or "well grounded". The more evidence there is to support a conclusion, the more justified it is. (Though it of course becomes more complex when there is a piece of evidence that can be made to support both the opinion and it's contrary).

Anyway, this is largely irrelevant to my original point (post70), which was that the inference from generalised prejudice to assumptions about an individual is invalid.

Zarathustra
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parsimony
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#115
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#115
(Original post by KidA)
...there is no reason to hate them
especially because its not their fault that they are homosexuals..they didn't choose it..nobody asked them if they WANT to be homosexuals..

so to hate somebody for something he/she can not change and its not his/her fault that it happened to be that way makes no sence at all..
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annabellewalter
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#116
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#116
If you feel that way go read sweet but sassy's gay opinions in the lesbians! thread of general chat

lol
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katiesado
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#117
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#117
(Original post by parsimony)
especially because its not their fault that they are homosexuals..they didn't choose it..nobody asked them if they WANT to be homosexuals..

so to hate somebody for something he/she can not change and its not his/her fault that it happened to be that way makes no sence at all..
some people do choose it. homosexuality has erotic appeal for heterosexuals.

and i don't believe everyone is so easily categorized as hetero/homo. the lines blur. even people who'd say they were gay can have feelings of sexual interest or love for someone of the opposite sex. as children most of us have had "crushes" or intense admiration for someone of our own sex- maybe someone older that we admired that could maybe be construed as a homosexual impulse. i do believe that anyone who hates homosexuals only hates tendencies they see and feel disgusted with in themselves.
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Gentilhomme
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#118
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#118
i dont think anyone is predestined to like the same sex or the opposite it is not something that one consult us about or have a say in it.
Every thing is in pairs so are humans and animals. do you see any animal which is homo if dna was to blame for sexuality then we should see many animals which are homo as they donot have any conscience to object it.
therefor the question is why are some lesser human doing something that even animal not indulge in doing.????? ( i am not prejudistic simply giving opinion)
the whole essence of sex is to procreate (and a bit of fun) so how are homo going to reproduce. Homosexuality should be clasified as a crime against humanity and life
This idea of even discussing homosexuality discustes me
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NDGAARONDI
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#119
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#119
(Original post by Gentilhomme)
therefor the question is why are some lesser human doing something that even animal not indulge in doing.?????
If you care to Google it you will find otherwise: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...e+Search&meta=

(Original post by Gentilhomme)
( i am not prejudistic simply giving opinion)
Oh no?

(Original post by Gentilhomme)
Homosexuality should be clasified as a crime against humanity and life
This idea of even discussing homosexuality discustes me
Not prejudiced are we?

(Original post by Gentilhomme)
the whole essence of sex is to procreate (and a bit of fun) so how are homo going to reproduce.
Procreation argument is a poor one, particularly coming from those who believe in abortion.
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Gentilhomme
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#120
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#120
http://www.dailycardinal.com/news/20...e-605235.shtml
have a go at reading this link. If it is tooooo long and thruthful for you then here is a quote
"Males are most likely practicing with other males when they are juveniles because they are not even going to be looked at by females or taken seriously by females or may not know what to look for in females"
Therefor not a permanent behavior. it just like training
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