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Jamie
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#21
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#21
(Original post by vienna95)
Yes, because in the scriptures of the bible, God deemed pigs and swine to be unclean food, and not to be eaten ( Deuteronomy Chapter 14, Verse 8). But not only Pork is considered unclean...in fact, the entire of Deuteronomy Chapter 14 really lays out very specific laws on what is or is not "clean" (Kosher) food that people can eat
The sale of kosher pork products detracts from the validity of your argument
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technik
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#22
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#22
tis all part of the game...
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Tyler Durden
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#23
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#23
(Original post by technik)
tis all part of the game...
Quite.
Blair as a demon was still more offensive though. And slightly less clever.
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-mb-
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#24
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#24
(Original post by foolfarian)
The sale of kosher pork products detracts from the validity of your argument
As usual, you are just wrong in factual sense. There is no debate to be had here.

The Jewish food laws specifically state that Pork may not be consumed, as pigs do not fall within the guidlines for animals you can consume. Fell free to find a Jewish authority claiming otherwise.

"Kosher Pork" is a non-sequitur.

"Kosher pork" that you have seen is either intentionally misleading, or a joke.
e.g. http://www.cardhouse.com/drcliff/office/goodideas.htm
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-mb-
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#25
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#25
(Original post by foolfarian)
The sale of kosher pork products detracts from the validity of your argument
Try admiting the posters are offensive, and/or make the more intelligent point that Tories are fools for stirring the issue, because the posters had been on a website for 2 weeks, and would probably never have appeared in public.

They've simply given Labour millions in free advertising, thereby conveying the posters' messages, which are more damaging to the Tories than underhand tactics are to Labour.

I expect whoever complained will be *******ed by people with brains like Howard and Letwin.
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Tyler Durden
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#26
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#26
(Original post by -mb-)
Try admiting the posters are offensive, and/or make the more intelligent point that Tories are fools for stirring the issue, because the posters had been on a website for 2 weeks, and would probably never have appeared in public.

They've simply given Labour millions in free advertising, thereby conveying the posters' messages, which are more damaging to the Tories than underhand tactics are to Labour.

I expect whoever complained will be *******ed by people with brains like Howard and Letwin.
Not like they were gonna win anyway.
It's all a moot point, this election is a lost cause for the Tories.
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MC
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#27
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#27
(Original post by vienna95)
Yet studies show that anti-semitism is far more prevalent.
Hehehehe....that was a joke, right?
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MC
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Howard)
Have either Howard or Letwin complained? No. Then let's stop this utter garbage. Clearly the "flying pig" theme suggests a "pigs might fly" response to Tory promises and isn't in anyway an insult to Jews.

Quite honestly, I'm astounded at the simple mindedness of some people.
For once Howard, I actually agree with you.
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DenverDiva
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#29
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#29
The flying pigs poster seemed reasonably inoffensive as it played on a widely used English figure of speech - however the Fagin-style picture seemed to me to be deeply offensive.

The demon eyes picture was also nasty, stupid and reflected more about the Tories than TB.
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Vienna
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Howard)
Have either Howard or Letwin complained? No. Then let's stop this utter garbage.
I dont see how that effects an assessment of whether or not this poster was offensive.

Clearly the "flying pig" theme suggests a "pigs might fly" response to Tory promises and isn't in anyway an insult to Jews.
If the Labour Party pursued the "when pigs fly" theme or chose to intentionally place two prominent Jewish politicians in this particular advert, makes little difference to whether the advert could cause offense. From your statement and that of others, the question of offense seems to revolve around whether the Labour party intended it or not. I dont see how that is relevant to a question of "Could this be offensive?"

Quite honestly, I'm astounded at the simple mindedness of some people.
I dont really understand what this is supposed to mean.
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wiwarin_mir
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#31
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#31
(Original post by yawn)
We have had a lot of 'hot air' from the Tories regarding their rage over the Labour party portraying Micael Howard and Oliver Letwin as flying pigs.

Does that beat the Tories poster on the 'demon eyes' of Tony Blair in the last election campaign?

Which, if any, do you think is the most offensive?
So what, both of the tories featured in the poster were of Jewish origins, but it did not say they were pigs, or refer to them in any direct way, it was making a sweeping statement about tories, something most election campaigns do.
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Jamie
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#32
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#32
(Original post by vienna95)
I dont see how that effects an assessment of whether or not this poster was offensive.


If the Labour Party pursued the "when pigs fly" theme or chose to intentionally place two prominent Jewish politicians in this particular advert, makes little difference to whether the advert could cause offense. From your statement and that of others, the question of offense seems to revolve around whether the Labour party intended it or not. I dont see how that is relevant to a question of "Could this be offensive?"


I dont really understand what this is supposed to mean.
See obviously some guy thought up the whole 'pigs might fly thing' and thought it hilarious, so chose the top two politicans. They probably
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Vienna
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#33
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#33
(Original post by wiwarin_mir)
So what, both of the tories featured in the poster were of Jewish origins, but it did not say they were pigs, or refer to them in any direct way.
It stuck their heads on the bodies of pigs, how more direct do you need it to be?!
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Jamie
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#34
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#34
(Original post by -mb-)
As usual, you are just wrong in factual sense. There is no debate to be had here.

The Jewish food laws specifically state that Pork may not be consumed, as pigs do not fall within the guidlines for animals you can consume. Fell free to find a Jewish authority claiming otherwise.

"Kosher Pork" is a non-sequitur.

"Kosher pork" that you have seen is either intentionally misleading, or a joke.
e.g. http://www.cardhouse.com/drcliff/office/goodideas.htm
A faux paux on my behalf it seems - i was thinking of Kosher prok products, which do exist, such as kosher bacon. Yes, it DOES exist, asda stocks it certainly.
However, i didn't realise that its actually soy bean/quorn type 'bacon' so actually vegetarian.

yup, was indeed tres wrong.
However, be it a cultural thing, or just an arseyness thing, but muslims seem much more anal aout the 'imagery' of pigs than Jews. There was a big thing a few years back i remmeber where a woman was forced to remove her ornamental pigs from her window sill because the local muslims found it offensive. In the Sun of course...
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Vienna
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#35
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#35
(Original post by foolfarian)
See obviously some guy thought up the whole 'pigs might fly thing' and thought it hilarious, so chose the top two politicans. They probably
Does that mean it cannot cause offense to someone?

Incidentally, I dont see how pigs flying is a particuarly ingenious or original.
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Vienna
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#36
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#36
(Original post by foolfarian)
There was a big thing a few years back i remmeber where a woman was forced to remove her ornamental pigs from her window sill because the local muslims found it offensive.
And yet some Jewish representatives find a political advert by the government offensive and this is "smallminded nonsense"?
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jpowell
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#37
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#37
This is politics at the best. Divert attention from the real issue which is clear to anyone (the accusation that Tory policies will work when pigs fly) by arguing about a percieved religious argument.

Basically all politics revolves around diverting attention away from the issues, and arguing about who has the best hair style.
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Chrism
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#38
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#38
The pigs one isn't anti-semitic. The Fagin one on its own I wouldn't say was either, however in combination with various other factors (Mike O'Brien's rather disingenious article about 3 weeks ago for example) I think it's quite clear that some people in the Labour election campaign, if not anti-semitic themselves, are certainly attempting to play on the anti-semitism of others.
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Howard
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#39
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#39
(Original post by vienna95)
I dont see how that effects an assessment of whether or not this poster was offensive.
Vienna, some people will ALWAYS be offended. That's just the nature of some people. Fcuk em.
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Howard
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#40
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#40
(Original post by vienna95)
And yet some Jewish representatives find a political advert by the government offensive and this is "smallminded nonsense"?
I don't understand your stance on this Vienna. You have often joined me in accusing blacks of oversensitivity and imagined victimhood or prejudice on this issue or that issue and yet here you seem to be backing a tiny minority who find a flying pig offensive for imagined reasons.
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