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MRLX69
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#1
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I put a Ketone (I suspect propanone), in a test tube. Then add sodium. To my knowledge, nothing should happen, but it started fizzing.... Then it was VERY vigorous! My question is... WHY does it react? What does it form? I'm really baffled! helppppp!

Ketone + Sodium = ?????? + gas?
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BCHL85
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Are you sure that's just ketone, no other funtional group in it?
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MRLX69
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(Original post by BCHL85)
Are you sure that's just ketone, no other funtional group in it?
Nope, there's only ONE functional group in this unknown compound. The mass spec, IR spec, NMR says it's a ketone (propanone). It also reacts with PCl5, which got me to think it may be a carboxylic acid, but I found out why it reacts with PCl5. If it is a carboxylic acid, then all the hydrogen's can't be in the same environment, there's only 6 hydrogens.
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john !!
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perhaps the ketone was not pure liquid and the sodium was reacting with water? (=> NaOH + H2 gas)
maybe it was contaminated by some other way?

also reacting with PCl5 would indicate water being present too.
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BCHL85
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Sorry, but if it can react with PCl5 .. you'll infer it contains -OH group, not -CO group
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BCHL85
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And sodium can react with alcohols ... do you know about that?
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MRLX69
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Sodium reacts with alcohol, yes I know. And yes, it does have some water in it. That's why. But when I tested for H2 given off......... NOTHING. Then I went on to testing O2, CO2....... nothing :confused:
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MRLX69
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(Original post by BCHL85)
Sorry, but if it can react with PCl5 .. you'll infer it contains -OH group, not -CO group
Look, I'm given the:

1)Mass spec.

2)IR spec

3) NMR

And it DOES contain a C-O AND a C=O (From the IR). The NMR shows it has 6 hydrogens ALL in the same environment. The Mass spec shows it has a mass of 58. ALL goes with propanone. (The C-O is explained by some additional research I've done).

A Ketone DOES react with sodium, and my teacher said if I look on the net about the reactions of ketones, I'll be surprised. But I can't find ANYTHING :confused:
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BCHL85
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Can you discribe more detail what you did? I don't think that propanone can reacts with sodium.
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MRLX69
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(Original post by BCHL85)
Can you discribe more detail what you did? I don't think that propanone can reacts with sodium.
I did the same thing with Acetone. (I know for sure that it's acetone). And it does resct with sodium. It just fizzes vigorously........ I haven't been able to test what gass is given off. I think it should be H2. I'm going to build up H2 in the test tube tomorrow.
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idiopathic
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What else did you see? Any ppt?
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anchemis
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#12
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This is a cruel experiment... sodium is a REDUCING AGENT.... so any CARBONYL group would be reduced to and ALCOHOL... err.. gas evolved should be hydrogen.... test it with a lighted splint... (btw.. I am not entirely sure... its quite a while since I done organics)

but... the sodium further reactions with the alcohol... to form a sodium alchoxide... err... RO- Na+ (yes... alcohols are NOT acidic but they do become conjugate acids with sodium) and Hydrogen gas is released
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anchemis
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oh... and C=O + [reducing agent] --> C-OH + H2O...
and Na + H2O produces the H2 gas....
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idiopathic
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aah haha you mean like sodium borohydride or NaBH4 or whatevr
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anchemis
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yeah... cause sodium likes to be oxidised...
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MRLX69
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#16
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I FOUND OUT WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WAHEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I LOVE MY UNIVERSITY FRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I KNOW YOU'RE NOT ON TSR BUT I LOVE YOU BEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHA

:bootyshak
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idiopathic
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(Original post by MRLX69)
I FOUND OUT WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WAHEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I LOVE MY UNIVERSITY FRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I KNOW YOU'RE NOT ON TSR BUT I LOVE YOU BEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHA

:bootyshak
Why! I'm curious!
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BCHL85
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#18
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Yeah, me too. As far as I know ... ketone can not react with Sodium, so it must have something strange in this reaction.
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MRLX69
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#19
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Try it for yourself. It DOES react. Vigorously as well.... Once I get ALL the info, I'll tell you guys. I don't want to write anything false. I'm meeting up with my uni friend tomorrow again . But honestly, try it yourself! Get acetone and put some sodium in it! Watch it REACT!
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Ben.S.
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#20
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(Original post by BCHL85)
Yeah, me too. As far as I know ... ketone can not react with Sodium, so it must have something strange in this reaction.
I'm guessing that Na is reacting with propanone much as it would with any acid - producing a sodium salt and evolving hydrogen gas. The hydrogens in the alpha positions to the carbonyl are fairly acidic (pKa about 20), and will probably react as such (as in a simple enolisation). That might well be rubbish, though!

Ben
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