re applying after being kicked out. Watch

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fivebyfive
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A friend of mine that i work with got kicked out of a very good uni for plagerism in her second year.
She now wants to give uni another try, she has good A levels. What are the chances of anywhere having her? Its a year after it happend, she will have a year of work experience behind her before she starts uni.
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trev
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I think it should be alright to apply again. Just don't mention about the plagerism thing obviously.
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Elles
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(Original post by trev)
Just don't mention about the plagerism thing obviously.
erm, but it will be fairly apparent from the timeline since A levels that she left uni.. hence i should think most other 'decent' unis would want to deal with why, in case this would have any bearing on her success with them. so unless you're advocating lying..?

i'm not sure, perhaps PQ would be the person to ask.

given that she was actually 'kicked out' then the situation must have been pretty severe, so i could imagine it might put some ATs off, but then being upfront & honest about it & showing maturity & having learnt from the experience etc etc might sweeten things slightly.

might make a difference the subject & uni it happened at & the one's she now wants to apply to..
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ak763
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It depends on the circumstances involved, I would guess. These sort of things are assessed on their own merits rather than to a fixed rule; truthfully, I don't think anyone's in a qualified enough position to make a definitive statement about what would or wouldn't happen. The only thing I would say is that I, personally, would be suprised if it wasn't taken into account; it's not the type of thing that can be whitewashed over.
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The Messiah
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she aint got a chance
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The Messiah
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just kidding.. but her chances of getting into a top uni are lower
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The Messiah
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my friend got kicked out of oxford lst yr almost commited suicide
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Angel_Cake
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(Original post by [email protected])
This girls chances of gaining a place at a top uni are not low whatsoever. To justify the gap between her A levels and her reapplication, she could say that she dropped out of her initial degree because it wasn't right for her or that she needed to earn some money due to financial circumstances. The plagerism issue is private and she need not declare it, unless she has a criminal record because of it.

One of my distant family friends (I'd never met him) was thrown out of Oxford (Magdalen College) for getting 70% on a Maths test. This is fact I'm not bull****ting. The College were dissatisfied with his and another persons progress and effort so they made them sit a test. They both scored sufficiently highly but were kicked out. The distant family friend of mine is now at Cambridge, but his friend hung himself. Although ive never met this person, it makes me angry just writing this post.
That's terrible. Surely they had loads of warnings or something first? I can't believe they're allowed to do something like that.
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ak763
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I'm guessing it was a form of penal collection? In which case if they miss their target (which I assume they must've), the college is in a position to withdraw a student from the course. I can't say I personally agree with such a policy, but it does happen; albeit not very often.
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Elles
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not that this is much to do with the original post re. plagerism.. but felt i had to respond.

(Original post by [email protected])
One of my distant family friends (I'd never met him) was thrown out of Oxford (Magdalen College) for getting 70% on a Maths test. This is fact I'm not bull****ting. The College were dissatisfied with his and another persons progress and effort so they made them sit a test. They both scored sufficiently highly but were kicked out. The distant family friend of mine is now at Cambridge, but his friend hung himself. Although ive never met this person, it makes me angry just writing this post.
although the circumstances here sound undoubtedly tragic. (& i'm no doubt being defensive partly out of loyalty) you're angry because they were sent down from a college? it happens every year to significant numbers of people & as with your family friend, the majority successfully transfer elsewhere AFAIK.

the 70% sounds harsh.. but it's a penal mark.. it happens to a few people in prelims or collections if they haven't been working hard enough & the 'acceptable pass mark' is decided by senior tutors, irregardless of the university pass mark or a 50% average. it's their right to do this. & it wouldn't happen to someone without numerous informal warnings (we get feedback in every tute ~2 times per week or more!) & probably some formal ones too at the cases' committee.

the factors in a suicide i should think are normally numerous. although there perhaps may be a trigger, i couldn't see how the college was in any way responsible for that? & the pastoral care in Oxford nowadays (i'm not sure of the time you're referring to), Magdalen especially is excellent.
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fivebyfive
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(Original post by [email protected])
This girls chances of gaining a place at a top uni are not low whatsoever. To justify the gap between her A levels and her reapplication, she could say that she dropped out of her initial degree because it wasn't right for her or that she needed to earn some money due to financial circumstances. The plagerism issue is private and she need not declare it, unless she has a criminal record because of it.

One of my distant family friends (I'd never met him) was thrown out of Oxford (Magdalen College) for getting 70% on a Maths test. This is fact I'm not bull****ting. The College were dissatisfied with his and another persons progress and effort so they made them sit a test. They both scored sufficiently highly but were kicked out. The distant family friend of mine is now at Cambridge, but his friend hung himself. Although ive never met this person, it makes me angry just writing this post.
I am so sorry to hear that. Thanks for your reply.
The fact that she does not have to declare the plagiarism is very good news for my friend. Are you def sure that is the case as I will let her know?
I think she is a changed person, she was the 1st to go to uni out of her whole family and was under a lot of pressure. I know its not a excuse but I think she has learnt her lesson.
She wants to apply for 2005 entry, she is 21 so is a mature candidate. However I know she wants to enter straight into the second year, on a different course (was doing English, now wants to do politics). How should she go about applying?

Thnaks
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Angel_Cake
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(Original post by Elles)
not that this is much to do with the original post re. plagerism.. but felt i had to respond.



although the circumstances here sound undoubtedly tragic. (& i'm no doubt being defensive partly out of loyalty) you're angry because they were sent down from a college? it happens every year to significant numbers of people & as with your family friend, the majority successfully transfer elsewhere AFAIK.

the 70% sounds harsh.. but it's a penal mark.. it happens to a few people in prelims or collections if they haven't been working hard enough & the 'acceptable pass mark' is decided by senior tutors, irregardless of the university pass mark or a 50% average. it's their right to do this. & it wouldn't happen to someone without numerous informal warnings (we get feedback in every tute ~2 times per week or more!) & probably some formal ones too at the cases' committee.

the factors in a suicide i should think are normally numerous. although there perhaps may be a trigger, i couldn't see how the college was in any way responsible for that? & the pastoral care in Oxford nowadays (i'm not sure of the time you're referring to), Magdalen especially is excellent.
Why do you always write everything so blimmin' small?!

As for the factors in a suicide, well...judging from the posts you read in the Cambridge and Oxford forums when people have been rejected, and what a huge deal Oxbridge is to some people (and their families, friends, teachers...), to actually get kicked out would make someone very depressed I would assume!

And slightly off the topic again, I thought Oxbridge universities had the highest suicide rates amongst students...?
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Angel_Cake
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(Original post by fivebyfive)
I am so sorry to hear that. Thanks for your reply.
The fact that she does not have to declare the plagiarism is very good news for my friend. Are you def sure that is the case as I will let her know?
I think she is a changed person, she was the 1st to go to uni out of her whole family and was under a lot of pressure. I no its not a excuse but I think she has learnt her lesson.
She wants to apply for 2005 entry, she is 21 so is a mature candidate. However I know she wants to enter straight into the second year, on a different course (was doing English, now wants to do politics). How should she go about applying?

Thnaks
If she wants to enter into second year she will need to contact the university she wants to apply to directly and see what their policy would be - it will depend greatly on how compatible the course at her previous university was with the one she wants to go to now. Can I ask what university it was, and where she's thinking of applying now?

If she was applying through UCAS like direct school-leavers for a first year place she would certainly not have to declare why she left university...although it would be a bit of a lie to put that she just didn't feel the course was right, but that's up to her. If she wants to go into second year it will make it much more complicated.
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Elles
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(Original post by Angel_Cake)
Why do you always write everything so blimmin' small?!
i write in small letters when my comments aren't directly relevant to the main thread & i had quite a bit to say on the particular tangent..tis me trying to be considerate but maybe i shouldn't bother. :p:

As for the factors in a suicide, well...judging from the posts you read in the Cambridge and Oxford forums when people have been rejected, and what a huge deal Oxbridge is to some people (and their families, friends, teachers...), to actually get kicked out would make someone very depressed I would assume!
maybe.. but to manage to get yourself kicked out presumably you have other issues causing you not to work. the majority of people i've heard of being send down have basically stopped working for whatever reason. if you were trying really hard then you wouldn't be having a penal collection. :confused: although you might still fail uni exams, admittedly.

And slightly off the topic again, I thought Oxbridge universities had the highest suicide rates amongst students...?
perhaps true.. i've seen stats for depression. but can you separate cause & correlation here?
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fivebyfive
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(Original post by Angel_Cake)
If she wants to enter into second year she will need to contact the university she wants to apply to directly and see what their policy would be - it will depend greatly on how compatible the course at her previous university was with the one she wants to go to now. Can I ask what university it was, and where she's thinking of applying now?

If she was applying through UCAS like direct school-leavers for a first year place she would certainly not have to declare why she left university...although it would be a bit of a lie to put that she just didn't feel the course was right, but that's up to her. If she wants to go into second year it will make it much more complicated.
Thanks, it was Exeter uni. Don't have any idea about where she wants to apply to now. I'll let her know, all the above info will really help her.
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Angel_Cake
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(Original post by Elles)
i write in small letters when my comments aren't directly relevant to the main thread & i had quite a bit to say on the particular tangent..tis me trying to be considerate but maybe i shouldn't bother. :p:
I see...well, fair enough but it hurts your eyes after a while!


maybe.. but to manage to get yourself kicked out presumably you have other issues causing you not to work. the majority of people i've heard of being send down have basically stopped working for whatever reason. if you were trying really hard then you wouldn't be having a penal collection. :confused: although you might still fail uni exams, admittedly.



perhaps true.. i've seen stats for depression. but can you separate cause & correlation here?
I would assume the two are connected - "country's most stressful universities produce country's most depressed students" - hardly rocket science! I guess you could say that the sort of people who get Oxbridge offers are the types who are more likely to be susceptible to depression, because (yes, I know, generalising and stereotyping here...) they often tend to be slightly more eccentric types, sometimes with quite intense personalities?

All I'm saying is that for many people Oxbridge is *such* a huge deal that I can easily see why getting kicked out would cause someone to commit suicide.
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Elles
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(Original post by Angel_Cake)
..I guess you could say that the sort of people who get Oxbridge offers are the types who are more likely to be susceptible to depression, because (yes, I know, generalising and stereotyping here...) they often tend to be slightly more eccentric types, sometimes with quite intense personalities?
i'd be inclined to go for the correlation approach myself. given the majority of people who become depressed here (or suffer from other mental disorders), i imagine, have had previous periods of it in their life & a tendency to become that way. admittedly the intensity of work might act as a trigger in some..but given that we're not all depressed it's not causal per se.

All I'm saying is that for many people Oxbridge is *such* a huge deal that I can easily see why getting kicked out would cause someone to commit suicide.
fair enough, doesn't make sense to me, but.. though given you earlier said of the college: 'I can't believe they're allowed to do something like that.' was it their fault? should oxbridge be given lots more funding so they can give places to everyone who applied in the first place lest they become suicidal..? :confused:
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Angel_Cake
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(Original post by Elles)
i'd be inclined to go for the correlation approach myself. given the majority of people who become depressed here (or suffer from other mental disorders), i imagine, have had previous periods of it in their life & a tendency to become that way. admittedly the intensity of work might act as a trigger in some..but given that we're not all depressed it's not causal per se.
I knew as soon as you wrote "correlation" that you were assuming I was then going to get confused between the difference in meaning of two words beginning with C :rolleyes: ...I never at any point said Cambridge caused people to become eccentric and intense - I assume (if they even are that way inclined) they were born like this. And then the stressful environment in Cambridge may indeed help to bring out these depressive tendencies. I, like you, would also be inclined to go for the correlation approach :rolleyes:
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Sarky
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Surely if she wants to enter the second year they'll want to ask her what grounds she has to enter the second year if she only has a levels? If she wants to skip a year she'll have to tell them that she has been at university before, and that she left!
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Angel_Cake
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(Original post by Elles)
fair enough, doesn't make sense to me, but.. though given you earlier said of the college: 'I can't believe they're allowed to do something like that.' was it their fault? should oxbridge be given lots more funding so they can give places to everyone who applied in the first place lest they become suicidal..? :confused:
It's also probably worth noting that when I wrote that I was reacting to the idea that two young men were kicked out of Oxford for achieving 70% (a reasonable score, by most standards, of course dependant on the content of the questions) on a test. I have no experience of the Oxford system and as a raw statement that does sound rather unbelievable. But then, wasn't my original quote, taken in context;

"Surely they had loads of warnings or something first? I can't believe they're allowed to do something like that."

As for your last comment, yes, what a fantastic idea, let everyone into Oxbridge, at least we won't upset anyone that way :rolleyes:
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