Trainee Legal Advisor - MOJ 2023

Original post by Didntwantaccount

Have people gotten offers from the north east sections yet?

I just got an offer today, pending pre-employment checks, for the North East.

Reply 41

Did anyone hear back from pre employment checks ?

Reply 42

levis_p_hill

4

Hi, I got an email from the vacancy manager asking to confirm crime or family and locación. Also to make arrangements to go in person to show proof of right to work in the UK and address.

Not heard yet.

Me neither

Original post by levis_p_hill

Hi, I got an email from the vacancy manager asking to confirm crime or family and locación. Also to make arrangements to go in person to show proof of right to work in the UK and address.

May I ask, if you don't mind, whether you are a current Civil Service employee? Your pre-employment checks seemed to have been completed quite swiftly.

I was under the impression that we confirm the location and choice after the full completion of the relevant checks, so, I presume, yours are now completed.

Or maybe I am wrong? Definitely happened before :colondollar:

Reply 46

levis_p_hill

4

Sorry yes, I should have said, I am already a civil service employee

Reply 47

Original post by levis_p_hill

Sorry yes, I should have said, I am already a civil service employee

Thank you for your quick reply.

Apologies for asking another question, but does the fact that you are a current employee imply that you are exempt from a probationary period for the position of Trainee Legal Adviser? My understanding is that the Civil Service is regarded as a singular (is that how you call it?) employer, and once a probationary period is successfully completed for one role, it extends to subsequent transfers.

Which is AWESOME, if true!

Reply 48

Original post by Johnny345678

Thank you for your quick reply.

Apologies for asking another question, but does the fact that you are a current employee imply that you are exempt from a probationary period for the position of Trainee Legal Adviser? My understanding is that the Civil Service is regarded as a singular (is that how you call it?) employer, and once a probationary period is successfully completed for one role, it extends to subsequent transfers.

Which is AWESOME, if true!

I think training period and probation period is not the same. The purpose of tla period is to somewhat make you qualified enough for unsupervised duty.

Previously 3+pqe or highly experienced lawyers used to come as legal adviser but now due to budget cut they have found a different approach.

I’m kinda stressed with my pre employment checks so kindly let me know if anyone else has received confirmation with posting.

Thanks for the update Levis. Did you go for crime or family ? And which court ? Best of luck.

Reply 49

I was wondering if anyone has information regarding whether the current position is a 'recognised period of training' or if it is considered only a 'qualifying work experience' (leading to the necessity to sit the SQ2 exam following two years period QWE)?

I reached out to the SRA, but they've mentioned that confirmation must come from the 'employer'.

In past job advertisements for the TLA role, there was a section explaining that the training process for the position aligns with participation in an SRA training contract. Additionally, it highlighted the fact that it's a requirement for a TLA undertaking an SRA training contract to fulfill the 6-months probationary period before being eligible for a training contract.

Link: https://justicejobs.tal.net/vx/lang-en-GB/mobile-0/appcentre-1/brand-2/user-213309/xf-4a00c9775ec5/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/3/opp/12995-12995-Trainee-Legal-Adviser/en-GB

No similar section was present in the job advertisement for 2023.

Link: https://justicejobs.tal.net/vx/mobile-0/appcentre-1/brand-2/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/3/opp/73040-73040-Trainee-Legal-Adviser-The-North-West/en-GB

Why the discrepancy? Anyone knows why/anything?

Reply 50

levis_p_hill

4

It is a training contract, my personal feelings is that they stopped advertising as such, so people would only apply if they really would like to pursue a career in HMCTS rather than just a training contract. Again is just my I think

Reply 51

Original post by levis_p_hill

It is a training contract, my personal feelings is that they stopped advertising as such, so people would only apply if they really would like to pursue a career in HMCTS rather than just a training contract. Again is just my I think

Thanks . Do you get any exemptions though after the end of the period ?

Reply 52

As a current trainee legal adviser with HMCTS, I just wanted to post to clarify a few things I've read:

1) If you've completed the LPC, this is your period of recognised training. HMCTS hasn't quite got to grips with SQE yet, in my experience, so it isn't "qualifying work experience".
2) You should have completed your educational course (whether LPC or BPTC) before starting your training contract. The application usually explains that; your contract is contingent on passing the course (because obviously it wouldn't make sense for them to let you start the job and you then fail the course). If you're not due to finish the course by the time you're due to start, you need to flag that with the vacancy manager as soon as possible.
3) There are no exemptions from the probationary period for existing Civil Servants. You still undertake the usual 6-month probation period. There are possible reductions in the length of the training contract (up to a maximum of 6 months) if you have completed relevant work prior to beginning your training contract, but that is at the discretion of the Training Principal (one of the Heads of Legal Operations).
4) When you complete the trainee legal adviser course, if your portfolio is signed off by the Training Principal and the SRA are satisfied you meet their requirements, you will qualify as a solicitor and advance to Tier 1 Legal Adviser.

Just as a reminder to anyone who has applied, HMCTS does not offer a route to qualify as a barrister. It has been a long-standing issue but the Bar Council view is that legal advisers do not undertake enough relevant advocacy to qualify. You can complete the BPTC and become a legal adviser after completing the trainee legal adviser programme, but my understanding is you then become an unregistered barrister. HMCTS does not offer pupillage, or secondments to allow you to undertake pupillage elsewhere and then return. It does not stop you being a legal adviser, however, once the course has been completed as legal advisers are delegated legal functions via legislation.

I hope this helps.

Reply 53

Thanks a bunch, DMS. Excellent answers to my questions! Much appreciated!

Reply 54

Original post by DMS_1131

As a current trainee legal adviser with HMCTS, I just wanted to post to clarify a few things I've read:

1) If you've completed the LPC, this is your period of recognised training. HMCTS hasn't quite got to grips with SQE yet, in my experience, so it isn't "qualifying work experience".
2) You should have completed your educational course (whether LPC or BPTC) before starting your training contract. The application usually explains that; your contract is contingent on passing the course (because obviously it wouldn't make sense for them to let you start the job and you then fail the course). If you're not due to finish the course by the time you're due to start, you need to flag that with the vacancy manager as soon as possible.
3) There are no exemptions from the probationary period for existing Civil Servants. You still undertake the usual 6-month probation period. There are possible reductions in the length of the training contract (up to a maximum of 6 months) if you have completed relevant work prior to beginning your training contract, but that is at the discretion of the Training Principal (one of the Heads of Legal Operations).
4) When you complete the trainee legal adviser course, if your portfolio is signed off by the Training Principal and the SRA are satisfied you meet their requirements, you will qualify as a solicitor and advance to Tier 1 Legal Adviser.

Just as a reminder to anyone who has applied, HMCTS does not offer a route to qualify as a barrister. It has been a long-standing issue but the Bar Council view is that legal advisers do not undertake enough relevant advocacy to qualify. You can complete the BPTC and become a legal adviser after completing the trainee legal adviser programme, but my understanding is you then become an unregistered barrister. HMCTS does not offer pupillage, or secondments to allow you to undertake pupillage elsewhere and then return. It does not stop you being a legal adviser, however, once the course has been completed as legal advisers are delegated legal functions via legislation.

I hope this helps.

You are a legend. Thank you .

so to be a solicitor it all depends on portfolio and whether Sra approve or not ? No other exams required ?

I hope BSB somehow finds a way for pupillage with hmcts.

Reply 55

Original post by mostafa10

You are a legend. Thank you .

so to be a solicitor it all depends on portfolio and whether Sra approve or not ? No other exams required ?

I hope BSB somehow finds a way for pupillage with hmcts.

HMCTS have been trying to sort out pupillage for years but it's never happened and to be honest, I personally can't see that it will. One of the core tenets of the pupillage is advocacy, which isn't something legal advisers massively engage in. We stand in court and address people and the magistrates, but we don't advocate for one position or another; we explain the law and the process and let people make decisions. Because we don't advocate for one side, it's hard to meet the advocacy requirements.

When you're undertaking your training contract you have to also complete your Professional Skills Course. For the most part this just involves attending courses and having your attendance noted, but there is an examination on the Finance & Business Skills module (which is mandatory). Failing that results in having to re-sit, and you cannot qualify without completing the PSC. My understanding is HMCTS pay for you to undertake the PSC because it's mandatory. Some more information is on the BPP website (https://www.bpp.com/courses/law/legal-training/psc-professional-skills-course).

While you're undertaking the TC, you complete a portfolio. It's basically a large document that details your progress, including a daily activity log, the modules you've completed on your study days, the courts you've sat in etc. That's what the Training Principal in HMCTS, and the SRA, use to decide whether you meet the criteria to qualify.

(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 56

DMS, thank you for taking the time to address all our questions.

Your willingness to assist is greatly appreciated.

I have a few more queries, if you're open to it. Although my pre-employment checks are not yet finalised, I've begun considering my future career path between working in criminal and family court. I understand I might be getting ahead of myself, but I believe it's never too early to contemplate such things. :smile:

Please consider that I come from a background of several years of paralegal experience focused on corporate law. I don't have any prior experience in either criminal or family law.

In light of this, I'm curious about the factors that influenced your choice. If you don't mind, I have a few specific questions:

1. Could you confirm whether my assumption is accurate that family court proceedings tend to be more 'private' with fewer hearings open to the public compared to criminal court cases, which are generally accessible to public observers by default?

2. Given that criminal proceedings often involve more serious crimes, even when they are eventually escalated to the Crown Court, are they typically more emotionally taxing compared to family law types of cases?

3. I'm eager to learn more about the primary areas that the family court deals with. Is it correct to presume that their caseload includes matters such as divorce proceedings, issues related to child 'abduction' and disputes over habitual residence involving parents with different nationalities, instances of domestic abuse, as well as cohabitation disputes? The Court of Protection issues related to the Mental Capacity Act will go directly to the Court of Protection and a family division of the Magistrates' Court will not deal with it? And all probate and administration of estate matters will go to the Chancery Division judges?

4. Once a decision is made between pursuing a career in the family or criminal court, is there any flexibility to switch paths at a later stage, or are you generally committed to your initial choice?

5. In terms of administrative tasks, would you say that either of the courts tends to be more heavily administrative in nature?

Once again, I am really grateful for your insights.

Reply 57

I don't mind assisting. It isn't too early to contemplate because once your pre-employment checks are completed, you'll be asked to consider whether you want to work in Family or Crime. It used to be that you could do both, but now you have to specialise, and moving between them isn't easy. So it's worth considering at this stage.

Please bear in mind that although I worked for the Family Courts in an administrative capacity, and have dome shadowing there, I haven't worked as a legal adviser in Family so this is just based off what I've heard from others and seen for myself briefly.

1. Could you confirm whether my assumption is accurate that family court proceedings tend to be more 'private' with fewer hearings open to the public compared to criminal court cases, which are generally accessible to public observers by default?
Family Court Proceedings are closed proceedings. Members of the public cannot observe. There may be other people in the courtroom alongside the applicant/respondent and any respective advocates, but they will be professionals such as CAFCASS officers, guardians etc. Criminal Proceedings are open to the public, with the exception of the Youth Court which, again, cannot be observed.

2. Given that criminal proceedings often involve more serious crimes, even when they are eventually escalated to the Crown Court, are they typically more emotionally taxing compared to family law types of cases?
Family Proceedings tend to be the more emotionally-draining cases. Our role as LAs in Criminal Proceedings tends to be limited more to the legal and procedural functions of the court. It is the for JPs to decide on the facts of each case. Yes, you'll hear about those facts, but aside from making notes during trials you'll probably also be doing a hundred other things at the same time as listening. The more serious cases - those that are "either way" (where the JPs decide their powers of sentence would be insufficient) or "indictable-only" go up to the Crown Court - rapes, murders, serious assaults/woundings, blackmail etc.

3. I'm eager to learn more about the primary areas that the family court deals with. Is it correct to presume that their caseload includes matters such as divorce proceedings, issues related to child 'abduction' and disputes over habitual residence involving parents with different nationalities, instances of domestic abuse, as well as cohabitation disputes? The Court of Protection issues related to the Mental Capacity Act will go directly to the Court of Protection and a family division of the Magistrates' Court will not deal with it? And all probate and administration of estate matters will go to the Chancery Division judges?
The Family Court is split into two 'divisions' to to speak; Private Law and Public Law. Private Law deals with disputes between parents, families etc, usually over where the child/children will reside or whom they spend time with and for how long. Public Law matters are those typically involving the local authority and usually revolve around applications for children to be taken into care, for Emergency Protection Orders and the like. You may also deal with applications for non-molestation orders. Child Abduction cases are dealt with by Circuit Judges and don't involve legal advisers. Divorce Proceedings are dealt with in court, but are mostly dealt with via an online portal now, which you as a legal adviser will deal with administratively. Domestic Abuse offences are dealt with in the Criminal Courts.

Court of Protection issues and Probate aren't dealt with in the Family Court.

4. Once a decision is made between pursuing a career in the family or criminal court, is there any flexibility to switch paths at a later stage, or are you generally committed to your initial choice?
You're generally committed, but there is scope for movement, so I'm told. I haven't really seen it in practice though; I know once upon a time as an LA you could do both, but then they asked people to commit to one or the other and I haven't seen anyone switch since then. I think it would depend really on your local area and their needs. It would also mean going through an entirely new training plan, as the training plans are specialised for Family and Crime.

5. In terms of administrative tasks, would you say that either of the courts tends to be more heavily administrative in nature?

They're both heavily administrative. Whilst we deal with cases in court, once you pass your training contract you will be given delegated powers to do certain things without a JP. This can include things like agreeing to vacate and re-list hearings, authorising summons, dealing with applications for defence costs orders etc. One of the things LAs do in Crime, outside of the courtroom, is deal with queries that go into the duty legal box. We also have to result all of the cases in the courtroom that we deal with using Common Platform (the case management system). Likewise in Family, LAs who sit with JPs are responsible for drafting any court orders that are agreed (where parties are unrepresented; advocates usually draft orders for LAs to approve if they are in court), and deal with applications via the online portal for divorce etc.

I hope this helps!

Reply 58

I appreciate you helping out with all these queries.

Making a choice isn't easy, but your info has given me lots to think about. I'll be chewing over all this stuff as I figure things out.

Can you recommend any reading as a further inside into these matters? I have read and re-read my LPC Criminal Litigation textbook, but I haven't had any Family Law and Practice as an elective during my LLM LPC course (though I had a Medical Law elective at Uni).

Thanks for being a big help!

Reply 59