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Reply 20

Original post by johndenver
I can't think of a job outside of teaching or education that would have an English degree as a requirement.


The question isn’t whether it’s a requirement but rather whether it would prevent you doing something else.
A good English degree from a worthwhile uni can open doors into a number of professions if it’s backed up with good GCSE’s and A levels. Obviously OP won’t be applying for engineering or medical posts, but there’s nothing stopping them going into law, accountancy, marketing, advertising , Human Resources, journalism to name but a few, plus as you say, teaching. It’s a myth that you have to have done a STEM degree from a target university to get on in life, perpetuated by those doing such degrees because it makes them feel safe. Unfortunately for them, if you examine statistics for things like professional accountancy exams they don’t actually have a higher pass rate than those coming from other backgrounds.
So I advise OP to study the subject that interests them the most and that will give them the greatest chance of obtaining the highest degree classification. The idea is to do well at university, not just to attend.

Reply 21

Original post by ELAL2023
Is it true that a non-STEM degree, say English for instance, is a waste of time and won't lead to a good career?

It's completely absurd to think of. People who pursue their studies in non-STEM-related courses, do shine in their lives as well. So, I would say every sector has its value as long as someone can excel there.

Reply 22

Original post by Euapp
The question isn’t whether it’s a requirement but rather whether it would prevent you doing something else.
A good English degree from a worthwhile uni can open doors into a number of professions if it’s backed up with good GCSE’s and A levels. Obviously OP won’t be applying for engineering or medical posts, but there’s nothing stopping them going into law, accountancy, marketing, advertising , Human Resources, journalism to name but a few, plus as you say, teaching. It’s a myth that you have to have done a STEM degree from a target university to get on in life, perpetuated by those doing such degrees because it makes them feel safe. Unfortunately for them, if you examine statistics for things like professional accountancy exams they don’t actually have a higher pass rate than those coming from other backgrounds.
So I advise OP to study the subject that interests them the most and that will give them the greatest chance of obtaining the highest degree classification. The idea is to do well at university, not just to attend.


If you want to do a job in Law or Accounting then surely you are better off doing a degree in, you know, Law or Accounting. I am not saying STEM is the be all and end all, it isn't. I am saying don't waste 3 years and £40k on a generic degree that you hope will allow you to side step into an industry which you could have actually studied for.

I would argue that Law and Accountancy degrees have better outcomes for students finding jobs outside Law and Accounting than the others you mentioned, and definitely better outcomes than English, Geography, History or god forbid Psychology!

Also it depends how much you want to earn. Choose a degree that will lead to a job is all I'm saying. I've seen too many friends with mickey mouse degrees working in generic admin post graduation.
(edited 2 years ago)
Dear Elal2023,


Studying English Literature at university can help you hone an array of transferrable skills to help boost your future career prospects and can give you the opportunity to choose from a wide variety of potential professions.

For example:
- Teaching
- Editing
- Journalism
- Copywriting
- Tutoring
- Publishing
- Bookselling
- Librarianship
- Museum Curating
- Social Media Management, and the list goes on!

English courses teach a wide range of content, skills and knowledge that can benefit students both in their education and after they graduate. If you are passionate about literature and want to develop a strong skillset that future employers will take note of, an English degree is perfect for you.

You’ll be able to nurture your interests and discover new ones as you embrace different areas of English Literature. Due to the high volume of applicants every year, securing a place to study English Literature at a high-ranking university is quite competitive. But once you’ve got your place, you’ll be able to sink your teeth into plenty of complex topics, gain hands-on teaching and secure excellent opportunities.

In conclusion, obtaining an English degree will be worth it as it will help you to open professional doors and carve a career out of a subject that you love. It involves lots of work, both independently and in lectures and seminars, but you’ll have the opportunity to completely immerse yourself in the aspects of English that you most enjoy. All of this offers you a world of opportunities once you graduate.

Best wishes,
- Howard
Coventry University Student Ambassador
It's false, there is literally research proving that there aren't any long term employment differences between the two:

https://figshare.le.ac.uk/articles/report/The_employment_trajectories_of_Science_Technology_Engineering_and_Mathematics_graduates/10234421

Key takeaways:

"The destinations of STEM and non-STEM graduates were similar

in terms of the status of the occupations they worked in and
the most common areas of work. By age 30, similar proportions
had graduate jobs and, for the most part, the largest recruiting
occupations for both groups were teaching and functional
management."

and

"There is some evidence of a ‘slower start’ among non-STEM
graduates in terms of securing graduate-level jobs. But any
longer term advantage of STEM degrees over non-STEM
degrees, in terms of the ability to secure and retain graduate-
level employment, is minimal. There was certainly no evidence
of dramatically better employment outcomes for STEM
graduates as a whole."

Emphasis mine.
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by ELAL2023
Is there an advantage in doing an English degree or is it viewed as being a waste of time, like other humanities subjects?


It's not viewed as a waste of time except by particularly mindless school students who have never worked a day in their lives anyway.

The research clearly shows that there isn't any long term difference between non-STEM and STEM graduate employment outcomes, as linked in your other thread: https://figshare.le.ac.uk/articles/report/The_employment_trajectories_of_Science_Technology_Engineering_and_Mathematics_graduates/10234421

Reply 26

Original post by artful_lounger
It's false, there is literally research proving that there aren't any long term employment differences between the two:

https://figshare.le.ac.uk/articles/report/The_employment_trajectories_of_Science_Technology_Engineering_and_Mathematics_graduates/10234421

Key takeaways:

"The destinations of STEM and non-STEM graduates were similar

in terms of the status of the occupations they worked in and
the most common areas of work. By age 30, similar proportions
had graduate jobs and, for the most part, the largest recruiting
occupations for both groups were teaching and functional
management."

and

"There is some evidence of a ‘slower start’ among non-STEM
graduates in terms of securing graduate-level jobs. But any
longer term advantage of STEM degrees over non-STEM
degrees, in terms of the ability to secure and retain graduate-
level employment, is minimal. There was certainly no evidence
of dramatically better employment outcomes for STEM
graduates as a whole."

Emphasis mine.


Thanks for providing this.

Reply 27

Original post by johndenver
If you want to do a job in Law or Accounting then surely you are better off doing a degree in, you know, Law or Accounting. I am not saying STEM is the be all and end all, it isn't. I am saying don't waste 3 years and £40k on a generic degree that you hope will allow you to side step into an industry which you could have actually studied for.

I would argue that Law and Accountancy degrees have better outcomes for students finding jobs outside Law and Accounting than the others you mentioned, and definitely better outcomes than English, Geography, History or god forbid Psychology!

Also it depends how much you want to earn. Choose a degree that will lead to a job is all I'm saying. I've seen too many friends with mickey mouse degrees working in generic admin post graduation.

No you are NOT better off doing a degree in law or accountancy, You are far more likely to get a job offer if you have a good degree in any subject rather than a mediocre degree in the relevant subject. Funnily enough students with degrees in accountancy and finance don’t do any better in the professional exams than those that have studied an unrelated degree, so if it’s only going to give you a couple of exemptions and save you a month or two of study time with your accountancy firm ( for which you are paid),far better to do something you enjoy at uni than something « useful » given that as you say you’ll be accumulating debt and as such should aim for the best result.
Similarly with law, a first or a 2:1 in another subject followed by a conversion course, coupled with relevant work experience removes the necessity to do a law degree. Employers need to know that you are capable of learning and getting good results when you are interested or passionate about something, they don’t expect you to know at age 17 and are making your UCAS choices, exactly what you wish to do with your life.
So unless you are going into a health related or engineering field, an arts degree if taken seriously is not a dead end qualification and OP is perfectly justified in studying one if this is where their interest lies.
(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 28

Original post by ELAL2023
Yes that's what I thought, but people have told me that an English degree, outside teaching, won't lead to an 'established' career because it's a humanities subject with poor employment prospects.


a) What is an "established" career?
b) Are "established" careers really the only way to earn a living?
c) Will being in an "established" career definitely lead to happiness and contentment in life generally?

I find it so sad that so many people measure success by how much money you earn when in reality, money simply traps you in a life you end up resenting. Follow your dreams and do what you love. That is the key to success if success is being happy.

Reply 29

Original post by hotpud
a) What is an "established" career?
b) Are "established" careers really the only way to earn a living?
c) Will being in an "established" career definitely lead to happiness and contentment in life generally?

I find it so sad that so many people measure success by how much money you earn when in reality, money simply traps you in a life you end up resenting. Follow your dreams and do what you love. That is the key to success if success is being happy.

Wow that's so true. Too often people measure success materially but that old saying is true: money doesn't 'buy' happiness.

Reply 30

Since when has English had 'poor' employment prospects? Do these people bother looking at the stats and the numbers before talking through their hoop? My guess is no.
Grad outcomes for COMPSCI have been so middling for so long I’m amazed this still gets trotted out.

I think a lot of younger people are a bit naive as to how many people go into careers with no direct relation to their degree subject.

I get bored of saying it, but in over a decade of working in the finance sector, I don’t know that I ever encountered anyone with a ‘relevant’ degree.

Reply 32

Original post by Admit-One
Grad outcomes for COMPSCI have been so middling for so long I’m amazed this still gets trotted out.

I think a lot of younger people are a bit naive as to how many people go into careers with no direct relation to their degree subject.

I get bored of saying it, but in over a decade of working in the finance sector, I don’t know that I ever encountered anyone with a ‘relevant’ degree.

Yep - I used to work in the chemical industry and the only people with relevant degrees there were the lab technical managers. Everyone else was a glorified salesperson with any number of generic degrees.
(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 33

Original post by ELAL2023
Yes that's a good point. I didn't go to uni because I had little interest in wanting to pursue a degree. What you say is very true - you have to be sure it's going to lead you somewhere. Going to uni is not cheap (unless you're rich) so committing to it for 3 years is a waste of time if it leads you nowhere. I know a couple of people who went to uni and are struggling to find a job, other than in retail stacking shelves with a lot of debt.


In which case they will never pay off their loan and the price is irrelevant. ( student loans are paid off after the student earns over a certain threshold and only paid off as a % of the salary above this limit. So low salary means no repayment and no burden of debt)

Reply 34

Original post by Admit-One
Grad outcomes for COMPSCI have been so middling for so long I’m amazed this still gets trotted out.

I think a lot of younger people are a bit naive as to how many people go into careers with no direct relation to their degree subject.

I get bored of saying it, but in over a decade of working in the finance sector, I don’t know that I ever encountered anyone with a ‘relevant’ degree.


My niece did a relevant degree…. and failed her professional exams.

Reply 35

Original post by ELAL2023
Wow that's so true. Too often people measure success materially but that old saying is true: money doesn't 'buy' happiness.

That's true, but that phrase is probably more appropriate when discussing vast sums of money rather than typical low or mid level annual incomes. I'd bet it's easier to be happy if you're not stuck in precarious employment, having to spend a large chunk of your income on rent or living in shared accommodation. People regularly change jobs for a few extra thousand per year because it does make your life easier.
Original post by Euapp
My niece did a relevant degree…. and failed her professional exams.

I shouldn’t laugh but yeah, a good example why relevant degrees aren’t automatically the best preparation.

Reply 37

Original post by Admit-One
I shouldn’t laugh but yeah, a good example why relevant degrees aren’t automatically the best preparation.

I did laugh ( but not to her face) having done a non relevant degree and getting all first time passes a long time ago when people generally didn’t 😂
(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 38

Original post by Coventry University Student Ambassadors
For example:
- Teaching
- Editing
- Journalism
- Copywriting
- Tutoring
- Publishing
- Bookselling
- Librarianship
- Museum Curating
- Social Media Management, and the list goes on!

Add to this list, jobs in Cyber Security too.
Original post by ELAL2023
Is there an advantage in doing an English degree or is it viewed as being a waste of time, like other humanities subjects?


Humanities subjects are not considered useless. The government is just prioritising STEM over SHAPE subjects. Contrary to popular belief, SHAPE subjects often provide job opportunities not only of equal pay but sometimes higher starting salaries.

There are plenty of degree pathways an English degree can take you in. As stated above jobs include the traditional jobs you associate with English like careers in writing, journalism, teaching etc. However, English also grants you the powerful skill of academic and professional writing modes. This allows you to craft more intricate CVs, cover letters and get you into prestigious jobs that require such writers in their fields. You can get in law, geography, advertising, copywriting for pretty much any company you have the skills for. It's a very diverse degree when you sit down and look at what English really teaches you. A degree solidifies any role that requires writing, general and specialised if you take a joint major in another subject.

No degree is a waste of time if you enjoy doing it :wink:

Dominic,
Student Ambassador, Lancaster University