How long should a couple be going out before having sex? Watch

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SamTheMan
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#181
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#181
(Original post by svidrigailov)
Emotions -- social judgment: that was my point.

The rest of your argument: "lah lah lah, I can't hear you". Especially like the condescending 'kiddo': classy touch.
"it is nothing to do with psychological or emotional maturity". Wrong. That's my point. The main way that social judgement affects you is through your emotions.

Not necessarily directed at you:

When you're young, you might understand certain physical aspects of sex but we live in a society, whether we like it or not and that means consequences to your sexual behaviour.
When you see a young girl who still doesn't understand the social implications of sleeping around, getting hurt because all she wanted to do was "please the guys she was with" ...then you realise that you need to understand a little more about emotions, intimacy, social and moral values before diving in...
Before someone tells me that if you removed moral and social values then such girls wouldn't be hurt, that's not true. A lot of these girls want to give pleasure to these guys more for social acceptance (with respect to her boyfriend) than physically wanting it.
Otherwise, if you go on a desert island with a bunch of 12 year olds, I'm sure they'll be fine having sex. Just like a young kid who is abused sexually, ends up accepting it as normal.
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puppy
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#182
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#182
(Original post by BhArJ)
Tally ho' old chap

What?
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Harv616
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#183
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#183
(Original post by puppy)
What?
lol never mind :rolleyes:
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Mad Vlad
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#184
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#184
(Original post by svidrigailov)
1. I'm rather reminded of one of those annoying paradoxes of Zeno, in which the only conclusion is that a particular state of affairs is a 'continuum', admitting of no divisibility. It is apparent that consent to sexual intercourse is just such a state of affairs; any limitation of time is arbitrary, and strictly speaking, unjustifiable with respect to other times. Cf. my post about age limits.
2. You've suggested no reason why sixteen is an important average figure.
3. If everyone ignores a law without the slightest qualm, it at least raises the possibility we should question the worth of the law; cf. my other posts.
Ugh! I cant be bothered reading it at this time of night! Go talk to Vienna95 :rolleyes:
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puppy
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#185
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#185
(Original post by SamTheMan)
"it is nothing to do with psychological or emotional maturity". Wrong. That's my point. The main way that social judgement affects you is through your emotions.

Not necessarily directed at you:

When you're young, you might understand certain physical aspects of sex but we live in a society, whether we like it or not and that means consequences to your sexual behaviour.
When you see a young girl who still doesn't understand the social implications of sleeping around, getting hurt because all she wanted to do was "please the guys she was with" ...then you realise that you need to understand a little more about emotions, intimacy, social and moral values before diving in...
Before someone tells me that if you removed moral and social values then such girls wouldn't be hurt, that's not true. A lot of these girls want to give pleasure to these guys more for social acceptance (with respect to her boyfriend) than physically wanting it.
Otherwise, if you go on a desert island with a bunch of 12 year olds, I'm sure they'll be fine having sex. Just like a young kid who is abused sexually, ends up accepting it as normal.
Again the assuption that girls can't want physical pleasure from sex (or are at least, unlikely to). Why are you lowering girls to that level? Why natually suppose they want to please men? We're not all subservient sex toys.
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lskdgjsj
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#186
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#186
(Original post by SamTheMan)
"it is nothing to do with psychological or emotional maturity". Wrong. That's my point. The main way that social judgement affects you is through your emotions.

An example of the straw man fallacy: a quotation of mine decontextualized, and placed amidst an argument on social judgment and its impact on the emotions; my point was precisely that any psychological (read emotional) repercussions of this particular type of sex stem from social judgment (in which the law is an abettor, result of, and instigator), for which reason the law is an ass.
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SamTheMan
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#187
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#187
(Original post by puppy)
That's true, but being abused is not the same as consensual sex. Abuse in any form would be likely to cause problems in one's adult life. If people have had emotional problems in the past and now sleep around, who are you to condemn them? They can't help whatever problems they used to have, that has nothing whatsoever to do with either the age of consent or consensual sex under the age of 16.
Have I touched a sensitive spot? The only reason I mentioned that most girls who sleep around had emotional problems in the past, is only to point out the relation between sexual behaviour and emotions. That's all.
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puppy
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#188
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#188
(Original post by BhArJ)
lol never mind :rolleyes:
Excuse me, I know what it means, I was referring to the bizarre context you used it in.
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Harv616
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#189
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#189
(Original post by svidrigailov)
An example of the straw man fallacy: a quotation of mine decontextualized, and placed amidst an argument on social judgment and its impact on the emotions; my point was precisely that any psychological (read emotional) repercussions of this particular type of sex stem from social judgment (in which the law is an abettor, result of, and instigator), for which reason the law is an ass.
:eek: he said ass!

(Original post by puppy)
Excuse me, I know what it means, I was referring to the bizarre context you used it in.
Your excused
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soilman
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#190
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#190
(Original post by svidrigailov)
I generally find that the bigness of a word is inversely proportional to the intelligence of its auditor. Frankly I'm not using big words, I'm not plowing through a thesaurus, or racking my brain for the most erudite and obscure way to put something, those just happen to be the words that come naturally, if you think that's an attempt to scare off would-be questioners, get over it.

I was going to respond to your post substantially, but you posted nothing of substance; your argument basically was 'I disagree; I think there has to be an arbitrary limit; that limit should be sixteen, but I won't say why'. Well, frankly, that's crap. For the sake of playing advocatus diaboli, I'll say there should be no limit, consensuality being the only limit (and that being determined by the legal age for the presumption of knowledge between good and evil, or right and wrong, as it were); and it being for a lawfully constitued tribunal to adjudicate on matters refered to them, taking into account the capacity of the "victim" for informed judgment.
what the ****? are you on acid?
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puppy
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#191
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#191
(Original post by SamTheMan)
Have I touched a sensitive spot? The only reason I mentioned that most girls who sleep around had emotional problems in the past, is only to point out the relation between sexual behaviour and emotions. That's all.
You've established a link, doesn't mean either has anything to do to with the other causally.
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Yossarian
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#192
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#192
(Original post by sm0273)
what the ****? are you on acid?
I thought it might be crack, but if you think acid i'm prepared to go with that
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lskdgjsj
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#193
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#193
(Original post by sm0273)
what the ****? are you on acid?

I can see how intelligence might seem to you something resulting from misuse of an illegal substance; and really, I sympathize. In the words of Bill Clinton, I feel your pain.
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Muse
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#194
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#194
(Original post by svidrigailov)
It is apparent that consent to sexual intercourse is just such a state of affairs; any limitation of time is arbitrary, and strictly speaking, unjustifiable with respect to other times.
it is not apparent at all. how we form mature decisions relating to sex and the hormonal and neurological changes which occur up to the age of 16 are barely out of discussion stages. to label it as a continuum is flippant, IMO.

(Original post by svidrigailov)
2. You've suggested no reason why sixteen is an important average figure.
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...&postcount=159

Obviously this is with respect to averages.

(Original post by svidrigailov)
. If everyone ignores a law without the slightest qualm, it at least raises the possibility we should question the worth of the law; cf. my other posts.
everyone?? i'm not sure we have the benefit of hindsight when considering how many more pre-16 sexual encounters would take place without a legal and corresponding parental deterrent. although as said before, i agree that there is a major issue of compliance.

(Original post by puppy)
What has someone's past emotional problems leading to them sleeping around in later life got to do with underage sex then? Because I don't see the link
That isn't the issue. Your statement was presented as a fact, when it has no supporting evidence.

(Original post by Yossarian)
What a daft thing to say. If you are being fiddled with against your will(whether you are 8 or 80) it will not leave you in a particularly stable state of mind.
You didn't read my post properly.
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lskdgjsj
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#195
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#195
(Original post by Yossarian)
I thought it might be crack, but if you think acid i'm prepared to go with that

Nothing amuses me more than the facile retreat into snide third-person asides; really, as Peter Griffin might say, you're priceless.
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SamTheMan
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#196
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#196
(Original post by puppy)
Again the assuption that girls can't want physical pleasure from sex (or are at least, unlikely to). Why are you lowering girls to that level? Why natually suppose they want to please men? We're not all subservient sex toys.
That wasn't really my point.
I think that if you scoured this forum, or anywhere, you'd find girls who ended up having sex because their boyfriend at the time, put pressure on them to have sex. I'm not saying that a girl at that age wouldn't be able to have sex and enjoy it. But for a lot of girls, it's not all about the pleasure you might finally get from it.
What I was trying to say was that a girl that age doesn't actually understand how her boyfriend/other guys might perceive her. In a simple, childlike attitude, a girl that age will often think that she will get more respect, be liked more if she gives a guy what he wants. That just isn't the case. And then girls wonder why the guy gets rid of her so quickly?
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Yossarian
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#197
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#197
(Original post by svidrigailov)
Nothing amuses me more than the facile retreat into snide third-person asides; really, as Peter Griffin might say, you're priceless.
Who's Peter Griffin? Your dealer or your pimp? (there is more if you would like) :aetsch:
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SamTheMan
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#198
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#198
(Original post by puppy)
You've established a link, doesn't mean either has anything to do to with the other causally.
OK I'll just continue assuming it does.
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lskdgjsj
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#199
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#199
(Original post by timeofyourlife)
it is not apparent at all. how we form mature decisions relating to sex and the hormonal and neurological changes which occur up to the age of 16 are barely out of discussion stages. to label it as a continuum is flippant, IMO.



http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...&postcount=159

Obviously this is with respect to averages.



everyone?? i'm not sure we have the benefit of hindsight when considering how many more pre-16 sexual encounters would take place without a legal and corresponding parental deterrent. although as said before, i agree that there is a major issue of compliance.



.
1. Your original point established precisely that it was a continuum; averaging is an attempt to impose order on a continuum; this is no way nullifies the thrust of my argument.
2. The research I have read differs on this point; although the argument is frankly immaterial; I object to hanging a law on a point on which scientists arbitrarily agree represents a heightened state of maturity, that, nonetheless, does not correspond to full maturity (imposed, all the while, on a continuum, as established before).
3. Everyone in this cause being a figure of speech; I'm sure if one googled hard enough, one would find an instance or two of prosecution for statutory rape, though it would pale beside the scale of "illegal" sexual intercourse to such a degree that the law itself becomes risible.
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soilman
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#200
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#200
(Original post by svidrigailov)
Nothing amuses me more than the facile retreat into snide third-person asides; really, as Peter Griffin might say, you're priceless.
stereotypes exist, why cant you just get to the point, instead of, as previously said, wraping it with bull**** around it.
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