How long should a couple be going out before having sex?

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Harv616
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#221
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#221
(Original post by svidrigailov)
I was tempted to use the expression "non sequitur", although perhaps that's a bit too colonial for you. You see, what you've posted is nonsense, that doesn't logically follow from anything I've said; the fact that I don't speak English as you think I ought to speak English says absolutely nothing about my class, or my views on society; and it decidedly does not place me within some dying breed of imperialist aristocracy.
ok well i might aswell as then :rolleyes:

What "class" are you?
what are your views on society?
which political party do you vote for?
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Muse
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#222
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#222
(Original post by svidrigailov)
1. Your original point established precisely that it was a continuum; averaging is an attempt to impose order on a continuum; this is no way nullifies the thrust of my argument.
How can it be a continuum? Stages of maturity can be pathologically and neurologically distinguished from neighboring parts without relying upon arbitrary measures. Averaging chooses an adequate level of sexual maturity to base such a decision.

(Original post by svidrigailov)
2. The research I have read differs on this point; although the argument is frankly immaterial; I object to hanging a law on a point on which scientists arbitrarily agree represents a heightened state of maturity, that, nonetheless, does not correspond to full maturity (imposed, all the while, on a continuum, as established before).
Any links to contradictory research? And I'm sure you'll agree that maturity can be as subjective as morality, in this case we're linking a level of sexual autonomous consent with child psychology - full maturity isn't required; the ability to make appropriate decisions is.

(Original post by svidrigailov)
3. Everyone in this cause being a figure of speech; I'm sure if one googled hard enough, one would find an instance or two of prosecution for statutory rape, though it would pale beside the scale of "illegal" sexual intercourse to such a degree that the law itself becomes risible.
Haven't you read many cases of >30 year old men raping 14 year old girls, then? This would be perfectly legal if the legal consent law wasn't in place (providing the girl agreed to it). Does this mean that the 40-year old isn't in a position of taking advantage - or is the 14 year old capable of rational choice?
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Yossarian
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#223
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#223
(Original post by svidrigailov)
I wonder what precisely your point was then; if it was not that I was behaving in some condescending patrician manner, then surely it was that I even thought class to be a working model, and not a relic of a bygone age; but it's apparent to anyone with the least iota of sense, that the class system is not merely alive, but manifests itself in the smug, insular world of the horrendously ubiquitous middle-classes.
Out of interest do you consider yourself to be a memeber of any particular class?
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Harv616
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#224
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#224
(Original post by SamTheMan)
Noone's opinion is going to be changed by this discussion. If people want to have sex whenever they feel like it, so be it.
But if a girl sleeps around, gets a reputation or whatever and then wonders why she can't get a decent guy, she shouldn't be surprised. Most decent guys respect girls who don't sleep with random people and who are actually picky about who they sleep with: not just a guy they find attractive or who's got a cool jacket or haircut, but who they truly like/love.
It's about pride and esteem. Being with a girl who values who she sleeps with makes you feel good, makes you feel special.
what he said, no ones going to change there minds just because of a internet forum.

Good arguments tho, twas fun
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Mad Vlad
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#225
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#225
(Original post by svidrigailov)
I disagree with the "suggestion" made by technik for precisely the reasons laid out in post #143 (q. v.), none of which were altered by his argument, such as it was.
Alright... Firstly... "(q. v.)" WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
Secondly... theres a number of places for you... D&D... so you can speak to Vienna, you'll find her rhetoric most appealing. Politics... You have the art of BS down to a tea. Go write some speeches for a politician and save us the hassle of actually listening to you.
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Muse
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#226
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#226
(Original post by Yossarian)
Out of interest do you consider yourself to be a memeber of any particular class?
This is off-topic. Couldn't you PM if you're that desperate to know?
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Yossarian
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#227
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#227
(Original post by timeofyourlife)
This is off-topic. Couldn't you PM if you're that desperate to know?
I disagree if you consider how this topic has evolved and I reject your assumption that I am 'desperate'
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lskdgjsj
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#228
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#228
(Original post by timeofyourlife)
How can it be a continuum? Stages of maturity can be pathologically and neurologically distinguished from neighboring parts without relying upon arbitrary measures. Averaging chooses an adequate level of sexual maturity to base such a decision.



Any links to contradictory research? And I'm sure you'll agree that maturity can be as subjective as morality, in this case we're linking a level of sexual autonomous consent with child psychology - full maturity isn't required; the ability to make appropriate decisions is.



Haven't you read many cases of >30 year old men raping 14 year old girls, then? This would be perfectly legal if the legal consent law wasn't in place (providing the girl agreed to it). Does this mean that the 40-year old isn't in a position of taking advantage - or is the 14 year old capable of rational choice?
1. I seem to be repeating myself. Pathological and neurological distinctions are not only arbitrary, but downright factitious; the modalities of judgment depend precisely on distinctions too insubstantial to be quantified in any meaningful way: what, precisely, is the criterion used to determine whether one person is more mature than another? If one answers rationally, one has to at least that the answer is multipartite, and, not only that, but depends in a very great degree on subjective judgment; I am reluctant, and I think rightly, to place credence in an averaging of subjective judgments with a flimsy "pathological and neurological" basis.

2. No, I'm not referencing articles that I read months ago on an internet forum at a quarter to two in the morning.

3. One reads about them precisely because of their rarity; and of course it would not be legal if the law was not in place, nonconsensual intercourse is illegal; if the fourteen year old consented, so be it. As I said earlier, it is for a competent tribunal to decide, and not this arbitrary, blunderbuss approach to law-making.
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puppy
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#229
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#229
(Original post by SamTheMan)
Having sex early on in a relationship isn't the same as being easy.
Maybe in the cases you mentioned, the guy truly liked the girl anyway. But as a guy, I know it's easy to want to have sex with a girl. To truly connect, to like her personality is another totally different issue. So a lot of guys convince girls they like them to get sex. It's classic!
It's still rather egotistical to assume that men are capable of convincing girls they like them to get sex, or that, indeed, it's important to girl to feel like that before engaging in intercourse. Maybe men feel they have "convinced" a girl when she has merely acquiesced of her own free will, independent of what she believes the man feels for her. I really think it's a case of men feeling superior to women and like they are able to manipulate them to say that girls have sex with them because they have been convinced they like them.
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Muse
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#230
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#230
(Original post by Yossarian)
I disagree if you consider how this topic has evolved and I reject your assumption that I am 'desperate'
This has only evolved by off-topic remarks. Requests about a members social status can be conducted via the PM system and don't add any weight to the discussion.
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lskdgjsj
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#231
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#231
(Original post by Mad Vlad)
Alright... Firstly... "(q. v.)" WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
Secondly... theres a number of places for you... D&D... so you can speak to Vienna, you'll find her rhetoric most appealing. Politics... You have the art of BS down to a tea. Go write some speeches for a politician and save us the hassle of actually listening to you.

Tosh, tosh, and more tosh; you're not compelled to read anything I say, and I have no intention of restraining myself from posting simply because some upstart find some of the things I say disagreeable.

And so far from being "BS", as you so charmingly put it, I think my posts so far have been quite cogent, and quite lucid to those with at least a modicum of intelligence.

Edit: Nearly forgot: q. v.: quod vide, literally, which see. Fairly common abbreviation.
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SamTheMan
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#232
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#232
(Original post by puppy)
It's still rather egotistical to assume that men are capable of convincing girls they like them to get sex, or that, indeed, it's important to girl to feel like that before engaging in intercourse. Maybe men feel they have "convinced" a girl when she has merely acquiesced of her own free will, independent of what she believes the man feels for her. I really think it's a case of men feeling superior to women and like they are able to manipulate them to say that girls have sex with them because they have been convinced they like them.
For a girl who only sleeps with a guy for the pleasure she gets out of it, everything I said does not apply.
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Barny
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#233
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#233
Sleeping with anyone makes me feel good/special
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Yossarian
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#234
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#234
(Original post by imasillynarb)
Sleeping with anyone makes me feel good/special
Amen
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Muse
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#235
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#235
(Original post by svidrigailov)
1. I seem to be repeating myself. Pathological and neurological distinctions are not only arbitrary, but downright factitious; the modalities of judgment depend precisely on distinctions too insubstantial to be quantified in any meaningful way: what, precisely, is the criterion used to determine whether one person is more mature than another? If one answers rationally, one has to at least that the answer is multipartite, and, not only that, but depends in a very great degree on subjective judgment; I am reluctant, and I think rightly, to place credence in an averaging of subjective judgments with a flimsy "pathological and neurological" basis.
Do you not consider signs of puberty to correspond with increasing maturity?

Edit: and I disagree with this "the modalities of judgment depend precisely on distinctions too insubstantial to be quantified in any meaningful way". I'm sure I can post something relevant to this when I'm next here.

(Original post by svidrigailov)
2. No, I'm not referencing articles that I read months ago on an internet forum at a quarter to two in the morning.
Then why mention them?

(Original post by svidrigailov)
nonconsensual intercourse is illegal; if the fourteen year old consented, so be it. .
Looks like we're going around in circles. I'll give you some rep when I'm next online for an interesting debate.
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Mad Vlad
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#236
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#236
(Original post by svidrigailov)
Tosh, tosh, and more tosh; you're not compelled to read anything I say, and I have no intention of restraining myself from posting simply because some upstart find some of the things I say disagreeable.

And so far from being "BS", as you so charmingly put it, I think my posts so far have been quite cogent, and quite lucid to those with at least a modicum of intelligence.
You haven't answered my question.
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lskdgjsj
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#237
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#237
(Original post by Mad Vlad)
You haven't answered my question.

See latest edit.
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SamTheMan
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#238
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#238
(Original post by imasillynarb)
Sleeping with anyone makes me feel good/special
That's it really. A guy will be happy to sleep with a girl on casually, on a one-night stand or whatever. He'll feel good during sex, even a bit after. But in the long run, he's not going to feel special the next day and after that if he's with a girl who's done the same thing with loads and loads of guys, maybe even his mates.
That's what people need to be careful about: there's what a guy wants immediately, and what he wants in the long run. Two totally different concepts.
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lskdgjsj
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#239
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#239
(Original post by timeofyourlife)
Do you not consider signs of puberty to correspond with increasing maturity?



Then why mention them?



Looks like we're going around in circles. I'll give you some rep when I'm next online for an interesting debate.

1. The clue is in the increasing: continuum.

2. Because that is how things are: the literature I have read on the subject isn't nearly so clear cut as you make out. I didn't expect you to demand chapter and verse on the subject. I could hastily google it if it would make you feel any better.

3. Yes, we are; thanks.
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puppy
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#240
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#240
(Original post by imasillynarb)
Sleeping with anyone makes me feel good/special
Me too, it's fun


Re the class topic, it seems to me a lot of people are assuming that someone with a good grasp of the English language must think themelves above others- such a British way to think, rather than respect others' qualities we feel the need to take cheap shots at them.

I agree the class thing is off topic, someones ability to argue in a forum should have nothing to do with their "class" and to bring up class suggests that one feels the need to know someone's social background before deciding whether to consider their opinions are worthy of consideration.
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