14yo Arrested After 7yo Killed by Motorcycle Hit-and-Run

Unfortunately anti social behaviour of this ilk, which is what this is despite leading to a murder, is absolutely rife in communities now. Until police are given stronger powers, and courts hand out tougher sentences this will never change.

Reply 2

How many kids are killed in skateboard or scooter accidents? Was this a proper accident or was it caused by someone riding it recklessly along the pavement for example? Both would have some riding it illegally but under very different circumstances.
Motorcycle laws in this country are a mess anyway so we don't need stronger powers,we need the police to deal with these problematic groups of people properly.

Reply 3

Barbu

Original post by imlikeahermit

Unfortunately anti social behaviour of this ilk, which is what this is despite leading to a murder, is absolutely rife in communities now. Until police are given stronger powers, and courts hand out tougher sentences this will never change.

You would consider this murder?

Anyway, I agree, unless it's because these incidents are being reported far more often, anti-social behaviour has been on the rise exponentially across the UK - and France, where I am, too.

I don't think there's any denying.

To put it bluntly, people have stopped giving a ****.

Every single day, I come across yobs between the ages of 15 to 28 causing chaos, driving their cars and motorbikes around like it's Le Mans, no respect whatsoever. I live in what is called a "safe neighbourhood". Plenty of idiots on electric scooters, no care in the world. Riding flat out on the pavements, crossing roads in front of oncoming cars.

Just last week, I almost got my GF's car driven into at a roundabout, and the guy shouted "I don't give a ****, I do what I want".

My family all live in London. My mum has spent 50 odd years there, and my dad around 30/40. They barely recognise it anymore on a social level. My mum is too frightened to take the car. She avoids buses when she can because someone's always having a meltdown or screaming at the bus driver. You're almost always on edge.

“I want to send a clear message to the public that young people in the area are able to ride these bikes because, in many cases, adults are giving them the bikes to ride"

This says it all, really.

Young boys, primarily, are being influenced by adults at a far younger age - and I'm talking about offending adults, often serial offending.

Mix that in with broken families, yes I'm going to say it, certain music genres, lack of education and sometimes even drug problems, it's a living timebomb.

What's worse is that absolutely ******* nothing is being done about it. It's been allowed to fester. Police are, I can imagine, burned out due to lack of resources, cuts, lack of powers, etc...

Despite what I've said, I'm happy I live here now. I will never step foot back in London, unless I have to see the family (they're often here).

Also, **** Sadiq Khan.

Reply 4

Barbu

Original post by TheStupidMoon

How many kids are killed in skateboard or scooter accidents? Was this a proper accident or was it caused by someone riding it recklessly along the pavement for example? Both would have some riding it illegally but under very different circumstances.
Motorcycle laws in this country are a mess anyway so we don't need stronger powers,we need the police to deal with these problematic groups of people properly.

And what exactly is the proper way?

Reply 5

Napp

22

I get the killer is a kid but as we all know theyre going to be, more or less, let off with barely a tap on the wrist. It hardly seems like justice these days.

Reply 6

Original post by Barbu

And what exactly is the proper way?

In the past laws were made by to deal with boy racers which increased fines and let police grab peoples vehicles with little justification. The vast majority of the use of these powers were against ordinary people.
Therefore the solution should be the same for football hooligans as discussed by these academics on the 9 o'clock news.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04clpd7h0b0

Reply 7

The biggest crime problem we are going to face in the next few years is going to be as an indirect result of covid. E-bikes and e-scooters proliferated during covid and attention was completely focused on other things and they were just given a pass and not dealt with, or worse still allowed to be licenced through local authority schemes. We allowed these things to be sold knowing that no-one cares that they are illegal to ride under almost any circumstances.

We now have the perfect crime vehicle.

E-bikes are now so powerful that they are effectively motorcycles, but require no licencing, no training, no insurance, no safety equipment and critically no registration. We have already seen that police are being positively prevented from pursuing e-bikes (and e-scooters), so there is no incentive now not to use one in crime, knowing that you can't be caught. Commit a crime, get on a e-bike or e-scooter. Get away.

In central London it is very common for thieves to be two up on an e-bike and carry out dozens of phone snatches in a very short space of time - and they cannot be pursued and cannot be caught.

Take it to its simplest level - these things are unsafe. Forget direct crime, we've all seen these hipster attention seekers flying about at high speed on hoverboards, wearing dirtbike helmets. They must know what they are doing is illegal, but they do it anyway, because nothing to them is more important than the self.

Reply 8

imlikeahermit

The most startling thing coming out of the news at the moment is what used to be the case with robbery. Anything under £50 even with sufficient evidence was not investigated. This makes me call into question the actual point of a police force.

Reply 9

Original post by Trinculo

E-bikes are now so powerful that they are effectively motorcycles, but require no licencing, no training, no insurance, no safety equipment and critically no registration. We have already seen that police are being positively prevented from pursuing e-bikes (and e-scooters), so there is no incentive now not to use one in crime, knowing that you can't be caught. Commit a crime, get on a e-bike or e-scooter. Get away.

but wasn't that already happening with small motorbikes? What about people who aren't criminals that want to travel a few miles without being tired.What if they are old or unfit?
Most of the escooters I have looked at only went around 15mph and had 3 or 4 mph modes and they cost about £300 for the cheaper chinese models. Where are these criminals getting the fast ones and how much do they cost?

Also to hammer home the point I've already made that is the police are letting crime escalate so it drives public opinion against them.They did this the last time when they were told they couldn't go around ramming bikers like they were playing GTA.

Reply 10

Original post by TheStupidMoon

but wasn't that already happening with small motorbikes? What about people who aren't criminals that want to travel a few miles without being tired.What if they are old or unfit?
Most of the escooters I have looked at only went around 15mph and had 3 or 4 mph modes and they cost about £300 for the cheaper chinese models. Where are these criminals getting the fast ones and how much do they cost?

Also to hammer home the point I've already made that is the police are letting crime escalate so it drives public opinion against them.They did this the last time when they were told they couldn't go around ramming bikers like they were playing GTA.

Small motorbikes were never ever the problem that e-scooters and e-bikes are. They were very rarely seen, were quite expensive and in the case of mopeds still have to be licensed.

The problem with e-scooters and e-bikes is that they are an extremely grey area and should only have been introduced with very exacting regulation, but because they exploded during covid, no one was interested in anything other than flattening the curve to save the NHS.

E-scooters and e-bikes are undoubtedly powered vehicles, in most cases are completely illegal, but are allowed to be sold and no-one cares.With some of the more powerful bikes, there is nothing seperating them from motorcycles, but with a motorcycle, nobody doubts that you must have licensing and insurance, otherwise you will get found out very quickly. With e-scooters/bikes, no-one cares. It's almost as if a perfect niche exists where you do what you like and your excuse is "I didn't know" or "everyone else is doing it".

As for police "letting crime escalate" - whose fault is that? If you are told in no uncertain terms that chasing someone on a bike / scooter / moped is a job loser, and quite possibly prison - obviously no police officer is going to do it. Similarly, proactive policing has all but disappeared because the public has allowed itself to be told that proactive policing is racist. Same with public order policing - JSO and XR behave the way they do because there are no consequences, because police are no longer allowed to police.

Big picture, things won't change for a long time until crime gets bad - and I mean really really bad. Much worse than now. At the moment, the CPS won't charge anything without mountains of evidence, and Magistrates give out sentences that are beyond lenient. Look to the US for our future - where in many States under 18s can't even be arrested. Look at California where theft is the norm, and large chain stores simply shut down - and yet people tolerate it because they have allowed themselves to believe that it's somehow progressing society. I have a feeling that it's going to be about 15 years before things improve and it's going to take serious social upheaval. Policing will not change this. It has to be the rest of the Criminal Justice system that has to change - especially Magistrates.

Reply 11

Original post by imlikeahermit

The most startling thing coming out of the news at the moment is what used to be the case with robbery. Anything under £50 even with sufficient evidence was not investigated. This makes me call into question the actual point of a police force.

At the moment, the threat of the police still exists and people know that if they commit serious crime, the police will come and at the very least will disrupt whatever is going on.

Imagine if there were no police at all ("what is the actual point of a police force"). There would be overnight anarchy. Every shop would be looted and gangs would swarm streets and parks robbing, maiming and worse.

It isn't good enough for Joe Public to tut and say they're fed up. That does nothing. It doesn't stop activists from screaming "racist" at every police action. It doesn't stop the CPS from refusing to prosecute clear cut crimes, doesn't stop magistrates from giving burglars unconditional discharges and doesn't stop parole hearings from releasing obviously dangerous people after a fraction of their sentences.

Reply 12

Original post by Trinculo

Small motorbikes were never ever the problem that e-scooters and e-bikes are. They were very rarely seen, were quite expensive and in the case of mopeds still have to be licensed.

These fast ebikes and escooters cost as much as a cheap chinese motorbikes with a cloned plate.
I remember there were strange midget motorbikes that were a fad at one point.

As for police "letting crime escalate" - whose fault is that? If you are told in no uncertain terms that chasing someone on a bike / scooter / moped is a job loser, and quite possibly prison - obviously no police officer is going to do it.

They were being passive aggressive.

Reply 13

Kilrar

0

Is there any problem with that? I can't speak for the whole world because I haven't been to all countries and cities, but in my city there are places where you can't ride a scooter. Usually this information is easy to find on google, different maps, etc. I think you can easily find such information too, if you search. By the way, this will be the first summer I can ride my new scooter I bought in Сherry Wheel. I've been looking at different options for a long time, and it was important to me to find the best value for the price. This is a big purchase for me and I'm glad I made it.

(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 14