NHS are a joke

The comments on this thread – oh my.

Firstly we should feel sorry for patients and the NHS staff who are striking. No one benefits from the strikes.

I think only people who work with or for the NHS have the ability to articulate the realities of working within the NHS. Anyone else can only at best try to understand by listening to others but the huge emotions that are at the core of it we are simply unable to understand. So we must listen to those NHS staff who are on the picket lines.

Then there are the patients. In the current climate there’s are waitlists spanning months or years. That is not fair on them and results in them getting worse and it not only affects them but their families, friends and livelihood. Strikes only make this worse.

The fact of the matter is, it goes back to ‘you’re damned if you do, you’re damned if you don’t’. If they don’t strike, are the waitlist going to better?

I feel so sorry for OP and you are right, you’re not getting the service you believe the NHS should offer. But prior to this was you getting the service you expect? I don’t remember the NHS being much different, I don’t remember anything but month or year long waiting lists.

Ultimately no one is benefiting from the way the NHS is currently and the only way it will improve is adequate investment.

I’m going to be quiet now as I’m not the right person to be saying anymore. I’m going to do what I said above and listen to others :smile:

Reply 42

username6042973

Original post by Guru Jason

I'm not saying the don't deserve to strike, I'm saying they shouldn't be allowed because it putting people health at an unnecessary risk and prolonging struggle of those that need operations.

Just beacuase they can strike doesn't mean they should.

Listen we live in a free world. Everyone deserves to strike, obviously I feel sorry for what you’re going through and having a family member in the same circumstances I know what it is like. But it is the government that have turned the NHS into what it is now

(edited 3 months ago)

Reply 43

mathperson

The lefties worship the NHS not because it's brilliant, but because it's government run.

We need to adopt a German-like model.

Reply 44

Charles III

Christ alive some of the comments here are absurd

Reply 45

username6042973

Original post by Charles III

Christ alive some of the comments here are absurd

.........

Reply 46

Original post by Guru Jason

Tf you smoking? If I pay my national insurance, I should get my operation in a timely manner. It literally what NI is for. Like I get if it get cancelled once or maybe twice but four times is a joke.

I've had more cancelled operations than I've had hot dinners in the last year.

I’m guessing it’s probably because your operation wasn’t serious and there may be other very serious patient needing urgent care with their life hanging?

Reply 47

Guru Jason

OP

Original post by Zephyr0221

I’m guessing it’s probably because your operation wasn’t serious and there may be other very serious patient needing urgent care with their life hanging?

It's was cos the consultants were on strike.

No strike means my op goes ahead. Strike got it cancelled

(edited 3 months ago)

Reply 48

Charles III

Original post by _Rusty_

Firstly we should feel sorry for patients and the NHS staff who are striking. No one benefits from the strikes.

I think only people who work with or for the NHS have the ability to articulate the realities of working within the NHS. Anyone else can only at best try to understand by listening to others but the huge emotions that are at the core of it we are simply unable to understand. So we must listen to those NHS staff who are on the picket lines.

Then there are the patients. In the current climate there’s are waitlists spanning months or years. That is not fair on them and results in them getting worse and it not only affects them but their families, friends and livelihood. Strikes only make this worse.

The fact of the matter is, it goes back to ‘you’re damned if you do, you’re damned if you don’t’. If they don’t strike, are the waitlist going to better?

I feel so sorry for OP and you are right, you’re not getting the service you believe the NHS should offer. But prior to this was you getting the service you expect? I don’t remember the NHS being much different, I don’t remember anything but month or year long waiting lists.

Ultimately no one is benefiting from the way the NHS is currently and the only way it will improve is adequate investment.

I’m going to be quiet now as I’m not the right person to be saying anymore. I’m going to do what I said above and listen to others :smile:

PRSOM. Some of the comments in this thread are clearly buying into harmful rhetoric spread as a result of these strikes. The crux of the issue, as you say, is investment being inadequate.

This isn't a new phenomenon, it's an ongoing problem which has been increasing in severity, year on year, for years. Systemic and chronic underfunding of the country's health service under the guise of budget cuts. Yet, when I see some of the comments made in this thread, I do wonder if there was another aim to cutting the NHS to the bones of its arse?

I can't begin to imagine the stress and pressure experienced by those who have gone on strike in the NHS. I work in software engineering, which is a fairly well-paid industry, but nothing I've ever done or worked on has been on the condition or the expectation that it could vastly affect whether someone lives or dies. This is what we're dealing with here, skilled and highly educated professionals whose purpose at work is to benefit the lives and wellbeing of others - and in the extreme: to literally save people from death where possible.

The fact some people even have the gall to seriously question whether or not these people who haven't had a pay rise in line with inflation for over a decade deserve one boggles the mind. Everyone works for a living, there will always be people that feel their work is their vocation and that is honourable, but everyone deserves fair, reasonable and measured compensation for their time, education and responsibilities. What those in the NHS are asking for is not unreasonable in the slightest.

If people want someone to blame, it's not the consultants or the emergency call handlers or the junior doctors. The problem lies with the Government's purposeful and chronic underfunding of the state's national health service - and now it's come to blows, where the system is so poorly maintained that the health of its users is put at risk simply by it continuing to function as-is. That's insanity and it must be addressed urgently.

OP, it's of course upsetting that your surgery was cancelled and I'm sorry it happened. I hope that when you do have it, that you're healthy and well and that everything goes alright for you. I am also sorry that this state of affairs affects patients in any way at all, it shouldn't - but ultimately what choice do the people involved here have?

Original post by Guru Jason

Honestly people who work in essential services such as police, firefighters, medical professionals shouldn't be allowed to strike.

Despite my complaints about the NHS, I believe that everyone should have the right to strike including those in essential services.

Original post by random_matt

Of course, the British have a big self-entitlement attitude and always want more, more and more without wanting to pay for it. They want a free health service and this is what you get, but they complain, complain and complain about the mediocrity. You would think by now they would of worked out by now why it is ****, it is time to look at the German model.

I disagree. People pay for the service through their taxes, the least that they should expect is for their services and operations to be done on time.

I'd personally support moving towards a French or German style system. I can see the difference when it comes to the quality of healthcare for the most part.

Reply 51

Original post by Guru Jason

It's was cos the consultants were on strike.

No strike means my op goes ahead. Strike got it cancelled

I can see why you lot don’t like NHS… this is totally unacceptable, it’s national health service not privatised company… I don’t understand why government is not ready for strikes and have doctors and staff ready for it. From moral perspective it’ll be much better to save a live then to raise your income. Well I said what I had to… strikes are fine until they cause life threatening issues or causing death.

Reply 52

Pepeh4nds

9

Original post by Zephyr0221

I can see why you lot don’t like NHS… this is totally unacceptable, it’s national health service not privatised company… I don’t understand why government is not ready for strikes and have doctors and staff ready for it. From moral perspective it’ll be much better to save a live then to raise your income. Well I said what I had to… strikes are fine until they cause life threatening issues or causing death.

Yeah but on the other side are HUMANS. No one is entitled to their labour unless you're a commie leader.

Reply 53

username6042973

Original post by Zephyr0221

I can see why you lot don’t like NHS… this is totally unacceptable, it’s national health service not privatised company… I don’t understand why government is not ready for strikes and have doctors and staff ready for it. From moral perspective it’ll be much better to save a live then to raise your income. Well I said what I had to… strikes are fine until they cause life threatening issues or causing death.

Personally, hopefully when I become a doctor I would never strike because I would understand the consequences. At the same time I totally support those that strike and believe they have the right to but also at the same time I think to myself what’s the point of adding on to the harm that comes to the public that the government is already adding

Reply 54

9wice

3

blame the government not the people working for the NHS, they're underfunded for so long no surprise it's ****

Reply 55

Charles III

Original post by B7861

what’s the point of adding on to the harm that comes to the public that the government is already adding

I'd like to think you're a logical and reasonable person so that's how I'll approach my response here. Your post says that you support the right to strike, particularly for those in the NHS - but that you personally wouldn't because of the consequences of doing so. I think that's fair enough as your personal stance.

You also make this statement quoted above, which acknowledges the harm the Government have caused to the NHS by underfunding it for so many years. We know, based on the current situation between the Government and the NHS, that the Government are completely happy to continue pushing the NHS on its current trajectory. Had there have been no strike action, they'd still be pursuing the same agenda. It appears by your post that you agree that the Government's policy towards underfunding the NHS is harmful.

By doing nothing, we can reasonably expect based on the Government's historic behaviour and attitude to NHS funding, that it will continue to get worse. Waiting lists are already at record highs, the quality of care is down, the outcomes of patients are worse, the standard of the service continues to fall, the state of the equipment and hospitals is deteriorating. So, by doing nothing, do we expect this situation will radically improve? That the patients NHS staff are there to help will suddenly find themselves off of waiting lists?

What would doing nothing achieve, if not more of the same? As things are right now, patients suffer because of the situation - even outside of the strikes. This is unacceptable. How can NHS staff do their jobs to the best of their abilities if they literally do not have the capacity, equipment, money or facilities to do it? What's the next thing to fail? The next hospital to close? The next "new hospital" to never open? The next prescription drug to have a shortage? Where do we draw the line? Should it get worse and then we decide it's "OK" to strike? How much worse should it get?

I understand your comments, but I just don't see what good it would do to do as you suggest. It appears either way that patients are being hugely short-changed by the situation - leaving it and doing nothing surely is the worst of the options available here?

(edited 2 months ago)

Reply 56

ParentMedStudent

2

The country cannot afford a health service free at the point of use any more. When the health service started in 1948 there were few treatments and mst people died much younger. The public taxes and NI do not come close to covering what the public expect Today. Most of it was covered by corporation tax but not anymore. It will have to go to a skeleton NHS service with all the rest insurance based. How quickly you get an operation or treatment, if at all, will depend partly on the level of insurance cover you can afford. That’s the reality the rich will get better and quicker treatment, the poor little or no treatment. Not ideal but that’s the reality. The person complaining about their cancelled operation in the thread above has little idea about how much worse it’s going to get for everyone in the UK.

Original post by _Rusty_

I don’t remember the NHS being much different, I don’t remember anything but month or year long waiting lists.

Pretty much this, I waited over a year to access psychological services after being referred by a psychiatrist and that was the year prior to the covid outbreak. People like to pin the long waits on covid which is a large part but the even bigger part is constant austerity for over a decade, a bloated management system and outdated IT systems. The waitlists have always been long covid just exacerbated it.
In terms of acute care so many hospitals have had wards closed or A&Es shut, our local area used to have two A&Es and now it only has one for the entire area. This then spills over into the ambulance service as they are queuing outside for hours to do hand overs rather than driving about answering other jobs. The government promised to build 40 new hospitals and surprise surprise hardly anything has happened. Its not a good thing that acute and emergency care is being so badly affected but perhaps people will take it a bit more seriously now. Historically there has never been much public outrage over long waits for things like mental health care, chronic conditions or transgender healthcare. Things like cancer care being delayed or people being sat in ambulances (rightly) incenses the public so maybe this is finally the watershed moment of the public not voting for austerity every general election.

OP I am very sorry to hear about your operation, the waitlists are very frustrating (currently on a waitlist myself for an endocrinologist) and something needs to change before the system collapses completely. Perhaps this will finally be the catalyst for a change, who knows.

(edited 2 months ago)

Reply 58

Original post by Pepeh4nds

Yeah but on the other side are HUMANS. No one is entitled to their labour unless you're a commie leader.

Totally agree, but strikes should be carefully planned.

Reply 59