Rishi Sunak proposes the Advanced British Standard

Please don't allow yourself to get too upset over this. These are only proposals and A-levels are here to stay for the foreseeable future. If you are at school or college, you might wish to discuss your concerns with the appropriate members of staff. I am sure they will put your mind at rest.

I'm not at school, right now I am 22 and I left education at 17, with an AS Level. I want to do them at some point in my life.

If this comes in I swear I feel like I am going to do something to myself like I really want to do my A Levels.

So I see most in this thread aim with bias towards one perspective, so I will try and balance the debate somewhat.

First, before I begin. Teenagers don't have their life planned and decided at the age of 14. Our brains learn and develop as we age from being a teenager. Whatever aspirations and ideas we have at 14, will be massively different at 18 or 21. The justification of a student not having to do English or Maths because it is not relevant to what they want to do as a teenager is an insufficient argument, given their plans and ideas will change as they get older. Very often, people change, ideas change, and our careers change. When that change happens, they should have the Maths and English skills necessary to pursue whichever field they want.



While I agree that the IB qualification is a viable alternative to the proposed qualification, it's important to recognise that introducing a local qualification system like the Advanced British Standard, might be an attempt to address specific local educational needs that IB might not address. For instance, the curriculum for English and Maths will be more tailored and specific to addressing specific skills within those subjects, and can have a syllabus that targets skills that will be directly useful and viable - which would not be feasible under the IB system.

Furthermore, there could be logistical and pedagogical reasons to develop a new qualification over IB.



You are absolutely right that some students do have sufficiently advanced skills in Maths and English upon leaving school, but there might be a portion of students who do not, and ensuring a baseline, minimum level of proficiency in these foundational subjects could be beneficial to those who don't.

The point about it being potentially discriminatory I disagree. One could argue that ensuring foundational skills in key areas like Maths and English is equipping students for varied opportunities and preventing potential discrimination in future prospects. Maths and English is a massive barrier in many industries; ensuring everyone has the skills necessary will have more opportunities remain open to them in the future.


From my perspective, increasing the subjects to five is likely to produce more well-rounded individuals who have more exposure to Maths and English, which might also enhance their ability in various professional and academic environments.

Maintaining a continued focus on Maths and English could serve as a continual reinforcement and prevent skill atrophy, especially for students who may not naturally gravitate towards these subjects. So, those who aren't literate and numerate at the age of 16, those extra two years will extend the time before atrophy affects their Maths and English skills before embracing employment or an academic environment.

1. BBC News updated the article. Everything apart from the bottom two lines was directly from the original article.

2. Rishi still said it, even if the BBC doesn't have it in their article anymore.

I don’t agree with the policy (unless GCSEs were to be scrapped or that there’s way less of a focus on GCSEs) but England does seem to be unique in this regard (being able the drop Maths, English and Science all simultaneously before the legal school leaving age whilst still being able to go down an/the academic path instead of a vocational one).

I keep saying this in threads because I haven’t heard of another country where you can do this unless someone can finally name me a country after asking for months.

Scotland...

Given that A-levels are very specialist qualifications, I don't really take issue with being able to drop maths and/or English before leaving school, if a certain minimum standard has been achieved.

Scotland...

Given that A-levels are very specialist qualifications, I don't really take issue with being able to drop maths and/or English before leaving school, if a certain minimum standard has been achieved.

The legal leaving age in Scotland is 16 unless I’m wrong here.

Are you allowed to drop Maths, English and Science all together/simultaneously before you turn 16 (if you choose to go down an academic route)?

OK, noted. I assumed it had risen to 18, but I just checked and you're right.



Yes, I don't believe you are compelled to take higher maths, English or any science if you stay on for highers, other than perhaps certain schools' policies.

Are highers optional (as in past the legal school leaving age) or effectively mandatory out of interest?

When I was at that stage, which was a little while ago now, if you were staying on past 16 you'd typically take highers, or intermediates if you had not achieved sufficient grades for entry into highers.

Yep so highers are post 16 then?

Yes - though some schools let you begin to sit them in S4 (typically at 15) if you are performing well and going to go into S5 after. (Also see my edit above.)

I don’t agree with the policy (unless GCSEs were to be scrapped or that there’s way less of a focus on GCSEs) but England does seem to be unique in this regard (being able the drop Maths, English and Science all simultaneously before the legal school leaving age whilst still being able to go down an/the academic path instead of a vocational one).

I keep saying this in threads because I haven’t heard of another country where you can do this unless someone can finally name me a country after asking for months.

There are some countries that are close to England, but not identical.

Australia has English as compulsory, but Maths and Science is not compulsory before leaving age in some parts of Australia. Since Australia is split into different states, like the US, then each state has different requirements on education. But, some states in Australia doesn't require Maths and Science.

In New South Wales, Australia, they will be making Maths compulsory from 2025, so it is quite a common trend that English and Maths are so important that many countries around the world require English and Maths. So, I don't see why this country should be any different.

It is a safe bet that A-levels will still be around in one form or another by the time you reach 30. You would be well advised to look into your study options at local colleges and online to see what is involved in taking A-levels as a "mature" student.

It is inevitable that, sooner or later, A-levels will be replaced. Nothing is forever. Changing times demand new approaches to education and training. Qualifications come and go all the time. There is no better example than the demise of O-levels in favour of GCSEs.

It is likely that if you haven't acquired A-levels by the time you are 30, there would be far more appropriate ways of continuing with your studies. These days, A-levels on their own have little value other than as an entry qualification for higher education or certain careers. If you simply want to study for pleasure there are many other routes you can explore.

Why can't you study A Levels for pleasure?