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[Official thread] Hamas-Israel Conflict

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Reply 1360

Original post
by Talkative Toad
Voting against what? I personally don’t know much about Uganda in context/in general.

my bad didn't make it much clearer.

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-pre-01-00-en.pdf

the ICJ website shows that out of all judges, there seems to be one voting against the pretty tame measures. they even voted against one in which the Israeli judge said yes. so I am curious about this.

Reply 1361

Original post
by Guru Jason
I'm asking you. I'm all for the idf way

The IDF way is to decimate the whole area, whatever the cost is in civilian lives. They drop a few leaflets in the vicinity so they believe they have green light to do as they please. You might be all for the IDF way, but I'm certainly not, and looks like most of the world is not either,

All people are asking is that they treat Palestinian lives the same as they would others. Target the terrorist using precision bombs and by storming buildings. Do not decimate an entire neighbourhood and starve a whole nation. I don't think that is too much to ask.

Reply 1362

Original post
by Guru Jason
Yeah I'm not believing any video that comes out of Paliwood. Would that happen to be the same guy who said he had broke both arms from the idf yet was filmed using both of them by the red Cross. Or the guy who one day is a reporter, the next a doctor and the next a refugee. Dream on and keep falling for paliwood propaganda.

paliwood. honestly, i refuse to speak to you on this nonsense ,you are a troll. you reference a guy with two broken arms who has quite literally two different people.

i'll link the stuff since you are lazy.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/israeli-hamas-command-center-al-shifa-hospital-falls-report-1234934784/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/some-70-of-gaza-homes-damaged-or-destroyed-wall-street-journal-analysis/
https://news.sky.com/story/three-israeli-hostages-killed-by-idf-were-holding-white-flag-says-military-official-13031567
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2023/10/23/the-telegraph-israel-abandons-precision-bombing-in-favour-of-damage-and-destruction
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240118-israels-military-occupies-and-destroys-israa-university-in-gaza/
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/20/middleeast/israel-gaza-cemeteries-desecrated-investigation-intl-cmd/index.html

paliwood is now every news source lmao even the israeli ones.

i won't put photos /videos that are worse than these as some people may be sensitive

Reply 1363

Original post
by jacksmith23
my bad didn't make it much clearer.

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-pre-01-00-en.pdf

the ICJ website shows that out of all judges, there seems to be one voting against the pretty tame measures. they even voted against one in which the Israeli judge said yes. so I am curious about this.

I have no idea why that judge is voting against it given the pretty tame measures as you say, maybe someone else knows or has more analysis on that.

Reply 1364

Original post
by Guru Jason
If hamas didn't steal aid, isreal would not withhold it. If hamas didn't hide in hospitals or schools or mosques etc then they would get targeted.

The death of every Palestinian is a tradgey laid at the foot of hamas hiding amoung them. It's not genocide, they don't target Palestinians, they target hamas. Death is an unfortunate but inevitable consequence.

if Hamas doesn't change their tactics then we won't give them food. thanks for defining collective punishment, this is a war crime. why is Israel withholding food,is it a weapon now?
why not have soldiers be accompanied to aid trucks rather than banning them practically for a month?
you've proven to us that if there is one Hamas member it is fine to bomb the hospital and kill the innocents. for you to ignore the person bombing them is ironic. it is Israel's fault for killing Palestinians, for you to assume that every death is because a Hamas member was in the way is ironic as literal evidence provided beforehand destroys it. the 70% figure alone makes it clear its outdated claims.
why do soldiers on the ground steal, rummage thorugh womens underwear and call them wh*****, make jokes and more?
tell us why Israelis mistakenly shot hostages with white flags and were shirtless?

the fact that the ICJ ( the highest un court) has made it seem plausible that it could be a genocide. genocide is an action not a result. while a case is being made, what is sure is war crimes have been commited by both hamas and the idf.

Reply 1365

Original post
by jacksmith23
agreed, but they do care. it is the middle east, a large chunk of the world's oil comes through there and if lets say iran does something then oil prices here in our country will go up exponentially. its simply that we need to protect our interests while not upsetting the rightfully emotional population who are recipients of the belief of human rights, you have to abide by the rules of war. i end with a quote from the current american president.

"(... ) for apologizing for our support for Israel. There is no apology to be made. None. It is the best $3 billion investment we make. Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interest in the region; (...) we worry about the eastern flank of NATO, Greece and Turkey, and how important it is. They pale by comparison they pale by comparison in terms of the benefit that accrues to the United States of America."

They don’t care about the people is more the point, they couldn’t care less if Israel turned Gaza into glass as long as it doesn’t affect them. Hence playing both sides, arming Israel and saying “bad Israel” at the same time. Everyone knows how important Israel are to the USA which is why it just rings hollow when they pretend to be humanitarians all of a sudden.

Reply 1366

Original post
by Wired_1800
so we bare some responsibility for the actions of the tory Government? I have never ever voted for the Tories in a GE. This means that the Houthis and Iran would consider every British man, woman and children fair game for the actions of Sunak. Simply incredible!

Yes, ofc we do, to think otherwise is to forget how a nation works. Sure, some of us may have disagreed with it but as a nation our collective response to our own governments actions in Iraq was akin to “oh no please stop…. anyway”.

You’re misrepresenting the argument. I never said civilians were fair game but as civilians of a nation you can’t be upset when the actions of your nation have consequences for you.

But to the actions in the M.E atm no, bombing the Houthis to protect trade shipping is a consequence of their actions nothing else. All they have to do to stop these consequences is stop attacking ships.

Reply 1367

Original post
by mallowtopia
Did you seriously just describe hamas as "soldiers"? :confused:
They're not soldiers, in any context.
They are terrorist fighters and other terrorist members whose roles do not involve fighting physically.

Call them whatever you want, it doesn’t really matter, the use of "soldiers" was merely to separate them from civilians.

Reply 1368

Original post
by Djtoodles
Yes, ofc we do, to think otherwise is to forget how a nation works. Sure, some of us may have disagreed with it but as a nation our collective response to our own governments actions in Iraq was akin to “oh no please stop…. anyway”.

You’re misrepresenting the argument. I never said civilians were fair game but as civilians of a nation you can’t be upset when the actions of your nation have consequences for you.

But to the actions in the M.E atm no, bombing the Houthis to protect trade shipping is a consequence of their actions nothing else. All they have to do to stop these consequences is stop attacking ships.

Some people are conflating the collective responsibility of a mature democratic nation to a landmass of people being ruled with an iron fist and struggling to survive. To me, it is amateurish for one to suggest that the Palestinians should bear responsibility of Hamas when they lack the democratic freedoms and peaceful existence to make the informed decisions on who governs them.

To your example of the Houthis, the actions of the Houthis are by that group and Yemenis should never bear responsibility for the crimes of such a group.

Reply 1369

Original post
by lalexm
"...if a few trucks going in carrying some dinner makes you feel better" Wow, you and I live is such different worlds that I think it is pointless for me to respond with any more of my views.

Perhaps it is worth you reading some of the reports from Médecins Sans Frontières, and other agencies of the ground to give you some grasp of the reality of the situation.

Im fully aware of what it will be like in a city under siege, ive studied enough accounts from other wars to know.

The main point is that sending a few trucks won’t stop anything, it will barely help anything. You can’t make war a nice place to be, especially in an urban context, you can’t do anything to make it anything other than a "humanitarian catastrophe". This kind of token humanitarian things are more for us than for them, I’m just realistic enough to admit it all. The only true way to help any "innocent" people in any war is to have no war and the easiest way to do that is avoid one by not starting one against a vastly superior enemy.

Ironically, I would say it’s you who need to understand the reality of the situation. War is war and these “humanitarian pauses” just give enemies time to re-deploy and re-entrench etc which only prolongs the war and causes more of the suffering you claim to be trying to avoid and more casualties for our allies, Isreal.

Reply 1370

Original post
by Wired_1800
Some people are conflating the collective responsibility of a mature democratic nation to a landmass of people being ruled with an iron fist and struggling to survive. To me, it is amateurish for one to suggest that the Palestinians should bear responsibility of Hamas when they lack the democratic freedoms and peaceful existence to make the informed decisions on who governs them.

To your example of the Houthis, the actions of the Houthis are by that group and Yemenis should never bear responsibility for the crimes of such a group.

Any people, even in an authoritarian regime bear some responsibility. At any time could we as a people could have all marched-on London and elsewhere to demand a stop in Iraq, at any time could the people of Gaza rise up against Hamas, at any time could the people of Russia fight back against the Putin regime. We didn’t because it was inconvenient, they didn’t because it was hard and scary probably and the third option is they agree with it. But assuming the first two, inaction against the actions of the people representing you isn’t innocence it’s complicity.

Reply 1371

Original post
by Guru Jason
Sigh, the IDF are targeting hamas, not hospitals. If hamas uses them as military based then they are military targets, thays not a war crime. If hamas arm kids then they become legitimate combatants even if they are child soldiers.

So basically, they can bomb hospitals, then just claim Hamas were there and you'll go "yep, sounds plausible". Remember when they told people in northern gaza to evacuate southwards and then bombed the escape routes? Remember when they literally said that all palestianians were combatants (even the toddlers) and were vermin and would be approached as such? Israel is committing war crimes and genocide, then giving the laziest lies ever and credulous fools are buying them hook line and sinker.

Reply 1372

Original post
by Djtoodles
Any people, even in an authoritarian regime bear some responsibility. At any time could we as a people could have all marched-on London and elsewhere to demand a stop in Iraq, at any time could the people of Gaza rise up against Hamas, at any time could the people of Russia fight back against the Putin regime. We didn’t because it was inconvenient, they didn’t because it was hard and scary probably and the third option is they agree with it. But assuming the first two, inaction against the actions of the people representing you isn’t innocence it’s complicity.

In what world could the people of Gaza rise up against Hamas? They have no option to vote Hamas out, were mostly not born at the last election, have zero way of arming themselves and if they start kicking off and creating a scene, Israel will gladly just bomb them all.

Reply 1373

Original post
by Djtoodles
They don’t care about the people is more the point, they couldn’t care less if Israel turned Gaza into glass as long as it doesn’t affect them. Hence playing both sides, arming Israel and saying “bad Israel” at the same time. Everyone knows how important Israel are to the USA which is why it just rings hollow when they pretend to be humanitarians all of a sudden.

agreed, but when has the government ever truly cared about the people, democratic ones need to not want to.

Reply 1374

Original post
by joakimsilva
How exactly is Hamas a terrorist organisation?

Hamas only operate in the Palestinian territory along the Eastern Mediterranean Sea as a professional standing Army. Anyone entering Israel accepts that they could potentially get shot, bombed, stabbed, taken hostage or killed as it is an ongoing military conflict regardless of whether you are from Europe, America, China or another nation in the UN. IDF and Israeli Militants could also bomb, shoot, stab and torture a foreign person entering Israel from the above mentioned nations and have done that for the past 70 years.

In fact, it is more likely for an IDF militant to conduct a terrorist campaign against a foreign nation than Hamas. The most logical solution is a diplomatic one; but it seems unlikely that Israel will negotiate on a non
-genocidal solution.


You must understand that domestic terrorism is not the same thing as international terrorism. An IDF soldier can deploy themselves from the USA or the UK and murder a group of Palestianian’s and sniff a dead Palestinian women’s knickers after the murder is done and her child is dead, for example. That person can then return to the USA or the UK and resume their lives there like it was nothing.

It’s a double standard. I hope that the professionals can step in and handle this mess properly that is logical and allows for humanitarian aid and assistance to those that need it whether they are Israeli or Palestinian.

Hamas target and kill civilians to achieve their political aims. They are literally the definition of a terrorist organisation. I’ve been very critical of IDF’s tactics on this thread, but let’s not pretend that Hamas are not terrorists. As I’ve said repeatedly, both sides are very much to blame.
Original post
by The boy..
Gaza has been donated millions, even billions in the last few decades for their welfare and infrastructure.

Could you provide a source for this claim please? :smile:

Reply 1376

And now the uk has stopped aid to the un agency for actual helping the hamas Oct 7th attack according to the bbc. What a sick joke.
(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 1377

Original post
by lalexm
Hamas target and kill civilians to achieve their political aims. They are literally the definition of a terrorist organisation. I’ve been very critical of IDF’s tactics on this thread, but let’s not pretend that Hamas are not terrorists. As I’ve said repeatedly, both sides are very much to blame.

With the same logic, then, IDF are also terrorists but you haven’t referred to them as such in all your posts. They are both terrorist organisations

Reply 1378

Original post
by spectrum84
With the same logic, then, IDF are also terrorists but you haven’t referred to them as such in all your posts. They are both terrorist organisations

No they are not terrorists, as unlike Hamas, they are not targeting and deliberately killing civilians for political gain. You could argue that collectively they are just as bad as Hamas as their actions have resulted in deaths of tens of thousands of civilians, but they don’t meet the definition of being a terrorist organisation, unlike Hamas.
IDF are undoubtedly terrorists at this point. You’d struggle to find a definition under which they weren’t.

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