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how could anyone be pro-israel?

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Reply 180

Original post
by probably_sane
the irony behind all the people like you is sad enough that it's past being funny. The only hospitals that are being bombed are the ones that israel verified are bases for hamas operatives. the ahli arab hospital was hit by failing hamas rockets, but somehow hamas new it was israel intantly, and all the brainwashed people like you believed them, even after israel showed video proof that it was hamas.

"probably_sane"... are you sure?

Reply 181

Original post
by probably_sane
proof?

How?

Zionism was literally not even created by a Jewish person. If you google it, it will come up with Herzl (who was Jewish) but he is not actually the founder. Zionism proper is an Evangelical Christian, judeophobic view of Zionism which aimed to displace Jews from Europe and the USA. It existed due to Jew-hatred, and because it was believed that the Jews' displacement would bring about the second coming of Christ. Herzl is simply the first Jew who decided that Zionism should be used to the advantage of the Jews- that they should indeed leave Europe, where they were being persecuted anyway, and make a place for themselves which he referred to as 'der Judenstaat' (the Jewish state).
Up until a few weeks ago, even I did not know this, so I hold nothing against you for being unaware of this less-spoken-of history. It takes some digging to find, since a lot of sources confuse Zionism, founded by judeophobes, with "modern" Zionism which was indeed headed by Herzl.
The point is, Zionism is rooted in Jew-hatred, no matter what it may be interpreted as in the present day. nelson585 is absolutely correct, and well-informed.

Reply 182

Original post
by probably_sane
Yes it is a war,one that hamas started on October 7th. (Not to be confused with the general conflict which started in 1947).
Israel bombing refugee routes was proven false, rather it was hamas who was doing it. Why does bombing of boats bother you so much if no one was on them, maybe you could put your energy more into caring about Israeli kids being held hostage in Gaza. Everyone with half a brain is disturbed by the Gaza civilian death toll, me, a diehard Zionist, and every other Zionist I know, do not like to see a single civilian death. Seeing kids dead is horrendous. However people with half a brain also see that Israel*is*not*to*blame

"Israelisnottoblame"
oh okay, so those women, elderly people, journalists, children, doctors, and people who weren't even palestinian just dropped dead of their own accord. gotchu.

Reply 183

Original post
by x-wing_pilot
Zionism was literally not even created by a Jewish person. If you google it, it will come up with Herzl (who was Jewish) but he is not actually the founder. Zionism proper is an Evangelical Christian, judeophobic view of Zionism which aimed to displace Jews from Europe and the USA. It existed due to Jew-hatred, and because it was believed that the Jews' displacement would bring about the second coming of Christ. Herzl is simply the first Jew who decided that Zionism should be used to the advantage of the Jews- that they should indeed leave Europe, where they were being persecuted anyway, and make a place for themselves which he referred to as 'der Judenstaat' (the Jewish state).
Up until a few weeks ago, even I did not know this, so I hold nothing against you for being unaware of this less-spoken-of history. It takes some digging to find, since a lot of sources confuse Zionism, founded by judeophobes, with "modern" Zionism which was indeed headed by Herzl.
The point is, Zionism is rooted in Jew-hatred, no matter what it may be interpreted as in the present day. nelson585 is absolutely correct, and well-informed.

The earliest zionism came from a variety of jewish thinkers, many of them strict followers of orthodox Judaism.
Including Zvi Hirsch Kalischer, Moses Montefiore, Moses Hess and Nathan Birnbaum- predating Theodor Herzl's political Zionist Movement.

Rabbi Kalischer's book "Derishat Tzion" was published in 1862.
Hess's book "Rome & Jerusalem: The Last National Question" was also published in 1862.
As as a teenager, Nathan Birnbaum founded Kadimah (the first student zionist group) coining the terms: ""political zionism", "zionist", "zionism" and "zionistic". Birnbaum later became a follower of haredi Judaism and served as General Secretary of the fiercely anti-zionist Agudas Yisroel.
(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 184

Original post
by x-wing_pilot
"probably_sane"... are you sure?

i have already corrected this, israel does not bomb hospitals, if you have proof then feel free to share,

Reply 185

Original post
by Anonymous #1
so i am not palestinian but i would define myself as pro-palestine. i feel as if i have educated myself widely enough to understand what is happening in gaza currently and what has been happening for years. i will not explain what is happening as that would stray away from why i made this discussion. the reason i made this discussion is because i've been seeing alot of celebrities or people with a wide platform staying silent to this issue or posting 'praying for israel' on their social media platforms. and i genuinely sat down on my desk and thought... 'am i missing something here?' how could someone be pro-israel, i'd like an explanation. i understand this issue has been happening for years, way before i was born, but people are using the hamas as an excuse to victimise israel. what did people expect? palestine was just going sit back, relax and allow their people to be killed and ethnically cleansed? anyways, could someone explain to me why anyone would be pro-israel?

Read the Palestinian charter pre Arafat as Hamas, Hezbollah and most Palestinian organisations do not accept his amendments!!!!!

Reply 186

Original post
by probably_sane

the irony behind all the people like you is sad enough that it's past being funny. The only hospitals that are being bombed are the ones that israel verified are bases for hamas operatives. the ahli arab hospital was hit by failing hamas rockets, but somehow hamas new it was israel intantly, and all the brainwashed people like you believed them, even after israel showed video proof that it was hamas.


It is against International Humanitarian Law to bomb a hospital, even if the enemy is hiding in said hospital

Reply 187

Original post
by spectrum84
It is against International Humanitarian Law to bomb a hospital, even if the enemy is hiding in said hospital

Even if it is fully used as a terrorist base and should have been already evacuated elsewhere?

Reply 188

Original post
by spectrum84
It is against International Humanitarian Law to bomb a hospital, even if the enemy is hiding in said hospital

first of all, international law states that if a hospital or school is being used by the enemy, it loses its protected status. second of all, as i already said earlier, i was incorrect in that post. israel has not bombed any hospitals. if you have proof that they have, then share it

Reply 189

Original post
by probably_sane
first of all, international law states that if a hospital or school is being used by the enemy, it loses its protected status. second of all, as i already said earlier, i was incorrect in that post. israel has not bombed any hospitals. if you have proof that they have, then share it

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/14/gaza-unlawful-israeli-hospital-strikes-worsen-health-crisis
https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/01/middleeast/gaza-hospitals-destruction-investigation-intl-cmd/

Reply 190

Original post
by Anonymous #1
so i am not palestinian but i would define myself as pro-palestine. i feel as if i have educated myself widely enough to understand what is happening in gaza currently and what has been happening for years. i will not explain what is happening as that would stray away from why i made this discussion. the reason i made this discussion is because i've been seeing alot of celebrities or people with a wide platform staying silent to this issue or posting 'praying for israel' on their social media platforms. and i genuinely sat down on my desk and thought... 'am i missing something here?' how could someone be pro-israel, i'd like an explanation. i understand this issue has been happening for years, way before i was born, but people are using the hamas as an excuse to victimise israel. what did people expect? palestine was just going sit back, relax and allow their people to be killed and ethnically cleansed? anyways, could someone explain to me why anyone would be pro-israel?

in principle, nothing is wrong with being pro-Israeli.
some are pro-Israeli because of the context of the brutal massacre perpetrated by a terrorist organisation, which essentially has provoked a response.
some are pro-Israeli because Israel is a Western ally that is democratic.
some are pro Israeli because of religion ie look at the evangelical Christians in America
Original post
by probably_sane
first of all, international law states that if a hospital or school is being used by the enemy, it loses its protected status.

This isn't quite true. Warning must be given to allow staff and civilians to be evacuated from the hospital regardless, and if the harm to civilians is disproportionate to the military objective, the attack is illegal under international law.

Source - AP News > Hospitals have special protection under the rules of war. Why are they in the crosshairs in Gaza?

Reply 192

Original post
by Admit-One
This isn't quite true. Warning must be given to allow staff and civilians to be evacuated from the hospital regardless, and if the harm to civilians is disproportionate to the military objective, the attack is illegal under international law.

Source - AP News > Hospitals have special protection under the rules of war. Why are they in the crosshairs in Gaza?

Warnings were given. Even Egypt offered help evacuating the hospital which Hamas rejected.The attack on the hospitals (Shiffa and the first one) were held off for two days because they were not evacuated yet by the time the attack was originally planned to happen. Even during the invasion inside the hospital IDF tried not to harm medical staff and patients.

Reply 193

Original post
by spectrum84
It is against International Humanitarian Law to bomb a hospital, even if the enemy is hiding in said hospital

I’m sorry but it may be against ‘international law’ to bomb a hospital or a UN refuge that the bombers are sitting in and hiding behind there civilians . Wouldn’t raiding innocent civilians homes, raping women and cutting babies heads of also be ‘against international law’??

Reply 194

Original post
by Stiff Little Fingers
Two major reasons:

1) Islamophobia and general anti-arab racism

2) evangelical Christianity in the USA. They believe that a Jewish state needs to be in the Levant to bring about the second coming of Christ and thus the rapture

What do you mean, the rate of antisemitism is higher than of Islamophobia compared to amount of humans who follow.

Reply 195

Original post
by The boy..
I’m sorry but it may be against ‘international law’ to bomb a hospital or a UN refuge that the bombers are sitting in and hiding behind there civilians . Wouldn’t raiding innocent civilians homes, raping women and cutting babies heads of also be ‘against international law’??


You can be against both you know…

Reply 196

Original post
by Talkative Toad
You can be against both you know…

It is tragic, what is happening in Gaza is appalling but I think thousands of those deaths are held responsible by Hamas. Hamas wouldn’t even think about evacuating a hospital that the Israeli military are firing rockets from under. Isreal do.

Reply 197

Original post
by The boy..
It is tragic, what is happening in Gaza is appalling but I think thousands of those deaths are held responsible by Hamas. Hamas wouldn’t even think about evacuating a hospital that the Israeli military are firing rockets from under. Isreal do.


I personally believe that both parties are responsible and that both are bad.

Reply 198

Original post
by Rakas21
1) Palestinians are not being ethnically cleansed. Indeed, those in Gaza have the highest fertility rate of any group in Israel.

2) Hamas is the political arm of a terrorist organization and frequently makes unprovoked attacks upon Israel and has stated that they wish to eradicate Israel.

3) Hamas is essentially a dictatorship that has not held free and fair elections since 2007 when they came to power.

4) Israel is a wealthy market democracy in a sea of theocracies and failed states.

5) Israel is much more alligned with the western world vs Hamas who are armed by Iran.

6) Israel has a fair claim to the territory

Most importantly though, it is in the UK's self interest for Israel to persevere. At least in this conflict since they are part of the western world.

Israel apart of the Western world?? I thought they were meant to be 'indigenous' to the land of Israel, which means they'd be classed as Middle Eastern as that is where it's located. Free Palestine !

Reply 199

Original post
by The boy..
I’m sorry but it may be against ‘international law’ to bomb a hospital or a UN refuge that the bombers are sitting in and hiding behind there civilians . Wouldn’t raiding innocent civilians homes, raping women and cutting babies heads of also be ‘against international law’??

It's sad to see how modern propaganda is still happening, it's scary. The beheading babies were proven to be false and this 'attack' on Israel didn't happen in a vacuum. You cannot start a story in the middle of the book, it's been happening for over 75 years, Palestinians have been raped, tortured and ethnically cleansed for 75 years- just look at the case of Ahmad Mansara - he is simply 1 out of millions Palestinians that have gone through this. Look at what the IDF post on their social media in comparison to Palestinians, making sexual jokes about Palestinian women. It's disgusting. I don't understand how people don't get that when you ethnically cleanse people out of their indigenous home, you will create retaliation groups. The solution if you really want to dissolve Hamas... Give their land back or how about stop ethnically cleansing them. I recommend to educate yourself with books by Norman Finkelstein and Ilan Pappe (all Jewish and born in Israel)- who like every normal human understands that what Israel and the IDF have been doing for 75 years is inhumane. This isn't about being pro- Palestine, Pro- Israel, Anti- Palestine, Anti- Israel or Muslims vs Jews. This is Pro- Humanity, and it just so happens to be that Palestine has been targeted for decades. This isn't a religious war as before the state of Israel Muslims, Jews and Christians were living peacefully. It is pure racism. Israelis even gave Ethiopian Jews contraceptive shots to prevent them from having children when they came in the 1970s, just read it any newspaper. Also, it's funny how South Africa a country that went through APARTHEID is sticking up for Palestinians. Free Palestine!!!

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