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PhD straight after undergraduate study??
Hi I am currently doing a joint honours undergraduate degree in Comparative Literaure and Business Management. It's a four years course and leads to an undergrdauate "Master of Arts Joint honours in Comp Lit and Business Management" degree (Glasgow university). I was told that I could try and directly apply for a phd. Does anybody know how difficult it is to get into one without having a postgraduate masters degree? I've contacted some unis just to see their general reponeses (UCL, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Open University) and they say it's theoretically possible. Does anybody here know from experience or word of mouth how it actually is? (I feel I can't really trust those one liner e-mail reponses from the uni registries..). So if anyone has any ideas, suggestions etc. that'd be really great.
Cheers xx
Cheers xx
theoretically a masters from one of the ancient Scottish universities should count for as much as a masters gained after a BA anywhere else. After all, they take the same amount of years to attain.
To be allowed to study for a doctorate at a good university, however, it's expected that the successful applicant achieves a strong 2:1 or better and can prove his/her aptitude with references and occasionally interview.
To be allowed to study for a doctorate at a good university, however, it's expected that the successful applicant achieves a strong 2:1 or better and can prove his/her aptitude with references and occasionally interview.
PatLeslie
theoretically a masters from one of the ancient Scottish universities should count for as much as a masters gained after a BA anywhere else. After all, they take the same amount of years to attain.
That isn't true, the Scottish university system starts a year earlier than the English one. The Ancient MA is a tradition and has no more weight than a BA elsewhere, this is the same for all the universities that offer it including the scottish ancients, oxbridge and trinity dublin. Whilst I was at St Andrews one gained an MA in the arts but a BSc in the sciences for the same number of credits, for example.
To be allowed to study for a doctorate at a good university, however, it's expected that the successful applicant achieves a strong 2:1 or better and can prove his/her aptitude with references and occasionally interview.
In the arts it's far more difficult than that. To get funding you are really looking at a first class honours at least and you would mostly be expected to have completed a postgraduate masters before starting a PhD (or as socrates says do a 3+1 PhD). You'd have to write your own research proposal as well.
I've yet to hear of anyone who has done an arts PhD without having to do a masters, least of all at the types of universities you mentioned. I know they leave the door open, and don't make it an absolute requirement, but I still haven't heard of anyone doing it in fields where it is basically expected.
That first bit, I am afraid, isn't true. The Scottish and Oxbridge MAs are treated just the same as regular undergraduate BAs in England.
PatLeslie
theoretically a masters from one of the ancient Scottish universities should count for as much as a masters gained after a BA anywhere else. After all, they take the same amount of years to attain.
To be allowed to study for a doctorate at a good university, however, it's expected that the successful applicant achieves a strong 2:1 or better and can prove his/her aptitude with references and occasionally interview.
To be allowed to study for a doctorate at a good university, however, it's expected that the successful applicant achieves a strong 2:1 or better and can prove his/her aptitude with references and occasionally interview.
That first bit, I am afraid, isn't true. The Scottish and Oxbridge MAs are treated just the same as regular undergraduate BAs in England.
Thanks a lot guys thats really a help...and the problem, too chemist boy and casper...
The whole story is that I finished my school edcation germany. as it is germany has 13 years of school and then three years of uni. but i went to scotland which has 4 years of undergrad uni. i don't want to to do an additional year for a masters and THEN apply for a phd (or do a 3+1) since I'd be two years behind then...without ever having failed!!
So there are two possibilities now:
a) to finish after three years at glasgow uni which leads to "master of arts in general humanities" and then try to apply for a one year master and then three year phd. the only problem here is that most unis want an "honours degree" and not simply a general certificate for a pg. getting an honours would mean doing the fourth (thus additional) year.
b) finishing after four years with an honours degree but then not applying for a pg but a phd directly. but here they want a pg for a phd.
i want a total of 7 years, either 3 years undergrad + 1 year pg +3 years phd
or
4 years undergrad + 3 years phd
but not 4 years undergrad +1 year pg + 3 yrs phd
I know this may seem silly since it's only a matter of a year but actually its not since I already wasted a year when I did 13 years of school instead of only 12. So I'm really desperate and been writing to all these people and my mind actually hurts from thinking about it all the time...if anybody knows which option would rather work (getting into a pg without honours; getting into a phd without a masters) then PLEASE let me know.
thanks a lot in advance.
The whole story is that I finished my school edcation germany. as it is germany has 13 years of school and then three years of uni. but i went to scotland which has 4 years of undergrad uni. i don't want to to do an additional year for a masters and THEN apply for a phd (or do a 3+1) since I'd be two years behind then...without ever having failed!!
So there are two possibilities now:
a) to finish after three years at glasgow uni which leads to "master of arts in general humanities" and then try to apply for a one year master and then three year phd. the only problem here is that most unis want an "honours degree" and not simply a general certificate for a pg. getting an honours would mean doing the fourth (thus additional) year.
b) finishing after four years with an honours degree but then not applying for a pg but a phd directly. but here they want a pg for a phd.
i want a total of 7 years, either 3 years undergrad + 1 year pg +3 years phd
or
4 years undergrad + 3 years phd
but not 4 years undergrad +1 year pg + 3 yrs phd
I know this may seem silly since it's only a matter of a year but actually its not since I already wasted a year when I did 13 years of school instead of only 12. So I'm really desperate and been writing to all these people and my mind actually hurts from thinking about it all the time...if anybody knows which option would rather work (getting into a pg without honours; getting into a phd without a masters) then PLEASE let me know.
thanks a lot in advance.
A lot of people take time out before going on to postgrad courses anyway, so its unlikely that you will be the oldest person on your course, plus there are the people who take gap years before uni, or who have studied in other countries like you have, so its not unusual in the slightest. I don't understand why you are so worried, do you have financial concerns?
I really think you are going to have to accept that if you want to do a phd you will have to do a masters. And leaving uni after 3 years with a non honours degree would be a very bad idea, and would probably ruin your chances of getting accepted for a masters.
I really think you are going to have to accept that if you want to do a phd you will have to do a masters. And leaving uni after 3 years with a non honours degree would be a very bad idea, and would probably ruin your chances of getting accepted for a masters.
I recall coming across some statistics somewhere that the median age for commencing a PHD in the UK was 25. I'll try and dig them up.
Then compare this to the states, where they have lengthy high school, four year degrees, and MAMMOTH PHDs- taking five/six years and beyond.
Your age is really not going to be a big deal. Its not something like banking where they expect people to burn out by the time their hitting thirty. Real academics don't hit their stride until most people are nearing retirement age
*
*(OK slight exageration, but not far from the truth. Ignoring the odd wunderkind here and there)
Then compare this to the states, where they have lengthy high school, four year degrees, and MAMMOTH PHDs- taking five/six years and beyond.
Your age is really not going to be a big deal. Its not something like banking where they expect people to burn out by the time their hitting thirty. Real academics don't hit their stride until most people are nearing retirement age
**(OK slight exageration, but not far from the truth. Ignoring the odd wunderkind here and there)
blueflower
The whole story is that I finished my school edcation germany. as it is germany has 13 years of school and then three years of uni. but i went to scotland which has 4 years of undergrad uni. i don't want to to do an additional year for a masters and THEN apply for a phd (or do a 3+1) since I'd be two years behind then...without ever having failed!!
Two years behind what?
This isn't some sort of competition in which the youngest person wins, so why does it make such a huge difference whether you're 24 or 25 when you start on a PhD?As Caspar David Friedrich said, people being admitted for a PhD straight after their undergraduate degree in a non-sciency subject only happens once in a blue moon, and unless you do *amazingly* well on you MA I don't think you can realistically hope for that. Leaving after your third year to do a postgraduate MA could also be potentially tricky, because as far as I know, the first three years of a Scottish degree aren't usually recognised as the equivalent of a three-year BA under the English system.
If you're that worried about "wasting time", though, have you considered going back to Germany? German universities may allow you straight onto a PhD programme with a Scottish MA.
Originally posted by hobnob
Two years behind what? This isn't some sort of competition in which the youngest person wins, so why does it make such a huge difference whether you're 24 or 25 when you start on a PhD?
Two years behind what? This isn't some sort of competition in which the youngest person wins, so why does it make such a huge difference whether you're 24 or 25 when you start on a PhD?
Haha ye speak the truth.
I am also stuck in the same situation as you and I am trying my level best to figure out a solution. So, if you get any solution, please let me know and if I get a solution, I let you know.
Original post by shubhijaiswal_
I am also stuck in the same situation as you and I am trying my level best to figure out a solution. So, if you get any solution, please let me know and if I get a solution, I let you know.
The thread is 14 years old.
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