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nikk
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#61
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#61
(Original post by slurp_coke)
Are chavs townies? If so, I agree that if you do not provoke them, they will not do anything.


Anyway, it seems to be the drunkards that cause the violence!
Yup townie is another name for a chav. There are several others as well. We call them townies in Cornwall!
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goblin paste
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#62
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#62
Way to breed prejudice, discrimination and intolerance towards one of the poorest and most marginalised groups in society, guys. You should be ashamed.

Sure, these groups may be noticably more violent and aggressive than your average person, but then you have to ask yourself why this is so.

If you were brought up into a society where you lack most of the things common people take for grantage, and you're looked down upon by anybody who doesn't live on your estate, then aggression and violence is your only source of power in society.
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staylor
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#63
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#63
I always thought chavs WERE drunkards
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staylor
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#64
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#64
(Original post by goblin paste)
Way to breed prejudice, discrimination and intolerance towards one of the poorest and most marginalised groups in society, guys. You should be ashamed.

Sure, these groups may be noticably more violent and aggressive than your average person, but then you have to ask yourself why this is so.

If you were brought up into a society where you lack most of the things common people take for grantage, and you're looked down upon by anybody who doesn't live on your estate, then aggression and violence is your only source of power in society.
Looked down upon?

I saw a book the other day called 'Chavs, Britains New Elite'
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goblin paste
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#65
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#65
Well, then it's apparent that you got mixed up, being so it's called:

"The Little Book of Chavs: The Branded Guide to Britain's New Elite"

Basically it's a book about chavs for "Britian's New Elite" to read.
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trouttrout
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#66
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#66
I do. What's wrong with 'em!
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Mrs_F
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#67
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#67
I don't know why everyone goes on about them all the time. They have been around for years definately since I wasa bout 11 but they just weren't as talked about then. There has always been charvers (not chavs, charver was the original word for them) though it's not a new thing, people really need to get over it.
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goblin paste
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#68
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#68
(Original post by lynseyweth)
I don't know why everyone goes on about them all the time. They have been around for years definately since I wasa bout 11 but they just weren't as talked about then. There has always been charvers (not chavs, charver was the original word for them) though it's not a new thing, people really need to get over it.
Look around you..."open your eyes," you'll soon find answers as to why everybody has just started talking about them.
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jamieuk20
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#69
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#69
but doesn't society needs chavs to keep McDonalds well staffed? lol
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roff
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#70
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#70
(Original post by jamieuk20)
but doesn't society needs chavs to keep McDonalds well staffed? lol
so that's why i see gossip_girl hanging round the McD on Oxford St..
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Profesh
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#71
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#71
(Original post by goblin paste)
Way to breed prejudice, discrimination and intolerance towards one of the poorest and most marginalised groups in society, guys. You should be ashamed.

Sure, these groups may be noticably more violent and aggressive than your average person, but then you have to ask yourself why this is so.

If you were brought up into a society where you lack most of the things common people take for grantage, and you're looked down upon by anybody who doesn't live on your estate, then aggression and violence is your only source of power in society.
I was born and raised on a council estate; I lived on income support, and lacked even the basic, 'common' provision of a phone-line, for nine years. I was persecuted by chavs for most of my youth.

'Chav' isn't a class demarcation; it's an attitude. You might as well chide people for disapproving of people whose actions qualify them as 'evil'. Chavs are looked down upon, precisely because they appear to espouse mindless violence and perpetuate societal ills: such persecution is symptomatic of their attitude, and largely not a causal consideration. Those who assume supremacy over others, purely on a basis of relative class distinctions, 'should be ashamed'; for such distinctions are wholly insufficient as a basis upon which to form pejorative pre-judgements of someone's character. 'Chavs', however, are defined as such in accordance with demonstrated social/behavioural deficiencies, to which a certain cosmetic demeanour is typically - albeit, coincidentally - concomitant (e.g. tracksuits, fashion-mongery, flagrant and habitual obscenity, unintelligibility, etcetera). The notion of what constitutes a 'chav' is more or less fixed in the social psyche; people criticise 'chavs' in the abstract. We do not make the tacit assumption that someone is a 'chav' by virtue of their satisfying some other, meaningless criterion - such as social class - which bears no inherent correlation with their attitude or lifestyle choice; those who do are guilty of base snobbery, and should be discredited accordingly. Rather, it is a wholesale demonstration of those negative characteristics typically associated with 'chavvery', which denotes the 'chav', per sé. It is only once qualified, that chavs warrant our disdain. When one ascribes to oneself a significant number of these 'qualifying characteristics', then one warrants criticism as would befit anyone who might conform to such an asinine behavioural template; if one does not believe oneself a 'chav', then one has no cause to take offence at any insinuations made.

To all intents and purposes, you might as well argue that criminals have been 'unduly marginalised' by society; the principle to hand is much the same.
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amo1
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#72
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#72
(Original post by jamieuk20)
but doesn't society needs chavs to keep McDonalds well staffed? lol
lol i agree... they try to say there the victims of the times... but the reason is war!!!!!

ie in the past theyve just been drafted and all shipped of to die
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amo1
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#73
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#73
(Original post by amo1)
lol i agree... they try to say there the victims of the times... but the reason is war!!!!!

ie in the past theyve just been drafted and all shipped of to die
this is also why u get 2nd and 3rd generation chav these days
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goblin paste
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#74
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#74
(Original post by Profesh)
I was born and raised on a council estate; I lived on income support, and lacked even the basic, 'common' provision of a phone-line, for nine years. I was persecuted by chavs for most of my youth.

'Chav' isn't a class demarcation; it's an attitude. You might as well chide people for disapproving of people whose actions qualify them as 'evil'.

Chavs are looked down upon, precisely because they appear to espouse mindless violence and perpetuate societal ills: such persecution is symptomatic of their attitude, and largely not a causal consideration. Those who assume supremacy over others, purely on a basis of relative class distinctions, 'should be ashamed'; for such distinctions are wholly insufficient as a basis upon which to form pejorative pre-judgements of someone's character. 'Chavs', however, are defined as such in accordance with demonstrated social/behavioural deficiencies, to which a certain cosmetic demeanour is typically - albeit, coincidentally - concomitant (e.g. tracksuits, fashion-mongery, flagrant and habitual obscenity, unintelligibility, etcetera). The notion of what constitutes a 'chav' is more or less fixed in the social psyche; people criticise 'chavs' in the abstract. We do not make the tacit assumption that someone is a 'chav' by virtue of their satisfying some other, meaningless criterion - such as social class - which bears no inherent correlation with their attitude or lifestyle choice; those who do are guilty of base snobbery, and should be discredited accordingly. Rather, it is a wholesale demonstration of those negative characteristics typically associated with 'chavvery', which denotes the 'chav', per sé. It is only once qualified, that chavs warrant our disdain. When one ascribes to oneself a significant number of these 'qualifying characteristics', then one warrants criticism as would befit anyone who might conform to such an asinine behavioural template; if one does not believe oneself a 'chav', then one has no cause to take offence at any insinuations made.

To all intents and purposes, you might as well argue that criminals have been 'unduly marginalised' by society; the principle to hand is much the same.
First of all, do you believe behaviour typical of that which is associated with 'chavvery' is equally observable amongst all social classes?

(Original post by Profesh)
The notion of what constitutes a 'chav' is more or less fixed in the social psyche; people criticise 'chavs' in the abstract. We do not make the tacit assumption that someone is a 'chav' by virtue of their satisfying some other, meaningless criterion - such as social class -
I know now that I didn't punctuate my point accurately enough, so will go on to elabourate.

What I'm saying is that people go along criticising chavs, thinking they're being abstract in the way that they believe they are criticising people on a sole basis of their spontaneous character, autonamous from any possible influence of marginalisation. I believe this is done in ignorance of the environment and conditions working class people are brought up into. I will now go on to say that statistically, the environment and conditions these people are brought up into influence the menacing aspect of their behaviour and lifestyle to some significant extent. It is true that it may not be the case for some working class people, but I believe this is due to the fact that humans don't always tend to be complete social dolts that react mechanically to their surroundings. However, environmental influence on groups' behaviour needs not to be overlooked.

Please feel free to poke holes in the errors of my logic I may have overlooked.
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ThePenguinMafia
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#75
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#75
Well this is a weird one...
Intelligent discourse is here juxta posed against puerile ignorance to produce one of the oddest threads I have ever seen. Congrats to Provesh and goblin paste for posting something worth reading.
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jamieuk20
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#76
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#76
I particularly like how chav's sport bling that's worth collectively less than my used boxers
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ThePenguinMafia
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#77
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#77
(Original post by jamieuk20)
I particularly like how chav's sport bling that's worth collectively less than my used boxers
Your boxers are quite the conversational point today. What colour are they?
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jamieuk20
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#78
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#78
Lol. I had no idea!
They are 'Simpsons' boxers - darkish blue with yellow stripes.
Some might call that very depressing in a man of 20.
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Profesh
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#79
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#79
(Original post by goblin paste)
First of all, do you believe behaviour typical of that which is associated with 'chavvery' is equally observable amongst all social classes?
Admittedly, 'chavvery' is more readily apparent among the 'lower' social orders, purely in terms of earning potential; not least, because the bigotry, bloody-mindedness and misanthropism prevalent among those who can be labelled as such, typically precludes them from qualifying for entry into the higher pay brackets by any conventional means. As such, this is purely a statistical consideration: chavs remain disenfranchised, because they're chavs; not vice-versa. They bemoan a lack of income sufficient to fund the most basic of expenditures, and yet a quite frankly warped sense of priorities can compel them to nevertheless fritter away whatever little they do possess (which, though meagre, is nonetheless ample means upon which to subsist) on the most inordinately expensive - and yet, inexorably, the most inconceivably, inexpressibly, homogenously crass - attire known to man. The significant minority with a genuine cross to bear find themselves drowned out amid a social slurry of economically defunct wastrels; in fact, I would venture it to be largely because of chavs that the working-class have been so consistently and mercilessly vilified.

I know now that I didn't punctuate my point accurately enough, so will go on to elabourate.

What I'm saying is that people go along criticising chavs, thinking they're being abstract in the way that they believe they are criticising people on a sole basis of their spontaneous character, autonamous from any possible influence of marginalisation. I believe this is done in ignorance of the environment and conditions working class people are brought up into. I will now go on to say that statistically, the environment and conditions these people are brought up into influence the menacing aspect of their behaviour and lifestyle to some significant extent. It is true that it may not be the case for some working class people, but I believe this is due to the fact that humans don't always tend to be complete social dolts that react mechanically to their surroundings. However, environmental influence on groups' behaviour needs not to be overlooked.

Please feel free to poke holes in the errors of my logic I may have overlooked.
The intellectual thrust of my argument is centred upon the fact that chavs inhabit a vicious cycle; a cycle from which they are habitually either unable, or unwilling, to extricate themselves. They are responsible for their own environment, and the environment they cultivate serves in turn only to perpetuate and exacerbate the socio-economic syndrome to which they are subject. It is a matter for consensus that chavs need to be effectively quarantined for the sake of the civilised majority, whilst the government conducts various projects with a view to the rehabilitation, and eventual assimilation, of 'ex-chavs' into society at large; to 'breaking the cycle', as it were, through external and interventionist means.

Perhaps these 'chavs' should warrant our sympathy, by default. However, though you may justifiably take issue with the fact that many would appear to conduct their critiques in blind ignorance as to the social stigma involved, your grievance is nonetheless founded upon a moral principle; and, as such, to ascribe to it a practical dimension would be misconceived: insomuch as criticism of 'chavs' continues to take place in the abstract, any risk of compounding or aggravating the syndrome itself is wholly negligible. Which, given the demonstrated ignorance of a significant proportion of those who would choose to exercise their right to freedom of expression here on TSR, is probably just as well :rolleyes:

That said, however, you are nonetheless quite free to express your tacit disapproval; that's what the 'rep' system was invented for
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JeremyG
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#80
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#80
I go to a college in Catham, the Chav capital of the world, and I love chavs. Why? Because they are just the same as the rest of us. They have the same toughts, dreams and ambitions as the rest of us. The fact that we concentrate on the little differences depresses me. We are all in this life together and the fact that some want to classify and compartmentalise people reminds me of Europe in the 1940's. Vive la difference!
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