The Student Room Group

Blackpill v Bluepill

A quick resume of the relationships pills
Blue pill is the belief that looks don't matter (lol) and relationships are based on values and personality. It's the narrative from mainstream and Disney movies, The Beauty and the beast is an example. So an ugly guy can get beautiful women because he's a good guy, while a handsome bad guy is rejected by the girl. Obviously it's false

The Black pill is the belief that looks are the main factor for relationships. It's usually denied because it means people are shallow. However, people are shallow in fact. So a handsome guy can get beautiful girls no matter what he says, while an ugly guy can't get them despite being good and nice.

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Really depends a lot on the personalities of the people involved. Blue, red, and black pill principles are all simultaneously true for different men and women. It also depends on the 'time of the month' apparently, and during pregnancy / following childbirth women are more attracted 'less douchey' but more supportive (blue-pill) men, which is why the whole "I'm a single mum looking for relationship with a stable good guy" has turned into an internet meme.

In my opinion if you want at least a half-decent life, it's a good idea to be aware of black and red pill principles so you know how to recognise and navigate those settings (ideally to avoid them), but work towards surrounding yourself with blue pill people. That's a very superficial way of putting it, and for that reason I rarely use those labels. It's a lot more complex than that. Those labels are also divisive. A lot of women just dismiss 'red pill' as MGTOW / misogyny, let alone admit that their own behaviour and dating standards reflect the 'red pill' mindset, and I don't think most women are even aware of the 'black pill' on the other hand. These labels rarely lead conversations anywhere constructive. They just make people defensive, because like you said they don't like being called 'shallow'.

Also 'red pill' at least advocates that there are some things which men can do to make themselves more attractive to women. 'Black pill' basically says that you're either born with it or not (height being the most common and stereotypical example), and that there is effectively little/nothing you can do about it. So, the more someone is attracted to superficial traits in others, the less you can do anything about it to make yourself more 'attractive' to them. The 'black pill' mindset doesn't even give you a window of opportunity for self-improvement.

In other words... avoid superficial people in general. Be aware of superficial people and how they think and act, so you can avoid them. They won't help improve the quality of your life, as there is likely very little you can do about those things. And avoid settings that evoke 'black pill' / 'red pill' mindsets in men and women, like most dating apps do. Most people know by now that dating apps are a very superficial experience, yet many still use them, and knowingly use them in very superficial ways. Women whom I've known describing their lifestyle this way, do not even realise that they're effectively pigeonholing themselves into the 'black pill' category of behaviour, and yet can't seem to figure out why they repeatedly attract shallow and often misogynistic douchebags. Probably because likes often attract each other, that's why. That's the price of vanity.

'Blue pill' doesn't mean dating obese people with hair growing from the palms of their hands. Those types tend to stick to their own flock anyway. It just means being attracted to people for their personality rather than appearances. A person with a good personality, will take care of themselves, eat right, exercise, shave, etc., and is unlikely to be stereotypically 'ugly' for those reasons. But they're also unlikely to preen themselves in front of the mirror for hours before a date like a normal person would do before a wedding, so they definitely won't be your stereotypical instagram model. Just a normal person. Nothing wrong with that.
(edited 7 months ago)
Bluepill isn't the narrative for most of the movies that I watch. The leading romantic characters in films are almost always played by good looking actors.
What are the adult overweight and obesity statistics for the USA, UK, Europe? How often are the main characters in films overweight or obese?
It's like Hollywood exists in a parallel reality where the obesity epidemic doesn't exist.
And when films do feature a large actor, how often do they get to play the nerdy geeky type, or the comedy sidekick type, or a baddie?
How often do baddies have facial scars, compared to goodies?

Kawasa, a couple of weeks ago you posted a link to a video of a night out in Manchester at Halloween.
Looking at the men that were with women in that video, how many of the men were good looking, how many average and how many below average? You can look at other videos from that channel in order to gather more statistics.

The evidence to blow the Blackpill theory out the water is right there before your eyes with the click of a button.
Reply 3
the beast was hotter than the prince
Reply 4
Original post by NonIndigenous
Really depends a lot on the personalities of the people involved. Blue, red, and black pill principles are all simultaneously true for different men and women. It also depends on the 'time of the month' apparently, and during pregnancy / following childbirth women are more attracted 'less douchey' but more supportive (blue-pill) men, which is why the whole "I'm a single mum looking for relationship with a stable good guy" has turned into an internet meme.

In my opinion if you want at least a half-decent life, it's a good idea to be aware of black and red pill principles so you know how to recognise and navigate those settings (ideally to avoid them), but work towards surrounding yourself with blue pill people. That's a very superficial way of putting it, and for that reason I rarely use those labels. It's a lot more complex than that. Those labels are also divisive. A lot of women just dismiss 'red pill' as MGTOW / misogyny, let alone admit that their own behaviour and dating standards reflect the 'red pill' mindset, and I don't think most women are even aware of the 'black pill' on the other hand. These labels rarely lead conversations anywhere constructive. They just make people defensive, because like you said they don't like being called 'shallow'.

Also 'red pill' at least advocates that there are some things which men can do to make themselves more attractive to women. 'Black pill' basically says that you're either born with it or not (height being the most common and stereotypical example), and that there is effectively little/nothing you can do about it. So, the more someone is attracted to superficial traits in others, the less you can do anything about it to make yourself more 'attractive' to them. The 'black pill' mindset doesn't even give you a window of opportunity for self-improvement.

In other words... avoid superficial people in general. Be aware of superficial people and how they think and act, so you can avoid them. They won't help improve the quality of your life, as there is likely very little you can do about those things. And avoid settings that evoke 'black pill' / 'red pill' mindsets in men and women, like most dating apps do. Most people know by now that dating apps are a very superficial experience, yet many still use them, and knowingly use them in very superficial ways. Women whom I've known describing their lifestyle this way, do not even realise that they're effectively pigeonholing themselves into the 'black pill' category of behaviour, and yet can't seem to figure out why they repeatedly attract shallow and often misogynistic douchebags. Probably because likes often attract each other, that's why. That's the price of vanity.

'Blue pill' doesn't mean dating obese people with hair growing from the palms of their hands. Those types tend to stick to their own flock anyway. It just means being attracted to people for their personality rather than appearances. A person with a good personality, will take care of themselves, eat right, exercise, shave, etc., and is unlikely to be stereotypically 'ugly' for those reasons. But they're also unlikely to preen themselves in front of the mirror for hours before a date like a normal person would do before a wedding, so they definitely won't be your stereotypical instagram model. Just a normal person. Nothing wrong with that.

Only one of them is true. Either the blue pill or the black pill is true
I think anyone seriously debating this should realise something: the strongest turn off to women is a man involved with the incel community. You're a virgin? You're short? You're fat? You're skinny? There's a women out there who likes that in a man. There are no women who want a man knee-deep in incel culture.

Would you date a man who spends all his free time hunched over some reddit forum somewhere, listing out all his physical flaws only to have the other guys tell him he's a low-value lost cause? You wouldn't, because it reeks of insecurity. Would you date a man who slavers over every little detail of the female form, while calling women hypergamous, man-hating robots, clustering around whatever 'chad' might buy them their next car? No, you wouldn't, because that man will respect neither you nor your consent. Would you date a guy who's so fixated on all the sex he's not having that he has no friends or hobbies? No, because he's boring.

I've heard people say that pick-up-artist gurus deliberately create a negative feedback loop when it comes to dating. Their grift targets men who've been rejected and had some bad experiences. They then sell them courses on picking up women filled with advice that'd make them avoid you like the plague, all while encouraging you to resent them for it. They keep it going for as long as they can, and if some twenty-something nutcase shoots up a shopping centre because he thinks women are sub-human, they don't care. Doesn't affect them.
Original post by Kawasa
A quick resume of the relationships pills
Blue pill is the belief that looks don't matter (lol) and relationships are based on values and personality. It's the narrative from mainstream and Disney movies, The Beauty and the beast is an example. So an ugly guy can get beautiful women because he's a good guy, while a handsome bad guy is rejected by the girl. Obviously it's false

The Black pill is the belief that looks are the main factor for relationships. It's usually denied because it means people are shallow. However, people are shallow in fact. So a handsome guy can get beautiful girls no matter what he says, while an ugly guy can't get them despite being good and nice.

If you're going to bang on about black pill ideology, at least get it right.

It has nothing to do with people being shallow, but rather it has everything to do with its proponents being fatalistic and refusing to even try to better themselves. At least NonIndigenous hits the nail on the head by pointing out that "The 'black pill' mindset doesn't even give you a window of opportunity for self-improvement.".

^^^ This is why people like you choose to adopt this very mindset. It is the easy, cowardly way out.

You have posted nonsense like this before, and will no doubt continue to do so because you do not want to take a good long look in the mirror and see the things you don't like about yourself reflected right back at you. Far better to pretend that it is somebody else's problem than acknowledge that we are all works in progress... admittedly some more than others.

I would wish you the best and hope that you eventually start to put in some good hard work on yourself, but you won't. You know it. We all know it.
Original post by Kawasa
Only one of them is true. Either the blue pill or the black pill is true

The weather on Christmas Day doesn't matter at all.
The weather is the main factor on Christmas day.

Only one of them is true. :smile:

The canteen at work doesn't matter at all.
The canteen is the main factor when deciding where to work.

Genetics don't matter at all when it comes to longevity.
Genetics are the main factor in determining how long someone will live.
Original post by NameUserer
I think anyone seriously debating this should realise something: the strongest turn off to women is a man involved with the incel community. You're a virgin? You're short? You're fat? You're skinny? There's a women out there who likes that in a man. There are no women who want a man knee-deep in incel culture.

Would you date a man who spends all his free time hunched over some reddit forum somewhere, listing out all his physical flaws only to have the other guys tell him he's a low-value lost cause? You wouldn't, because it reeks of insecurity. Would you date a man who slavers over every little detail of the female form, while calling women hypergamous, man-hating robots, clustering around whatever 'chad' might buy them their next car? No, you wouldn't, because that man will respect neither you nor your consent. Would you date a guy who's so fixated on all the sex he's not having that he has no friends or hobbies? No, because he's boring.

I've heard people say that pick-up-artist gurus deliberately create a negative feedback loop when it comes to dating. Their grift targets men who've been rejected and had some bad experiences. They then sell them courses on picking up women filled with advice that'd make them avoid you like the plague, all while encouraging you to resent them for it. They keep it going for as long as they can, and if some twenty-something nutcase shoots up a shopping centre because he thinks women are sub-human, they don't care. Doesn't affect them.

PRSOM
Original post by Kawasa
Only one of them is true. Either the blue pill or the black pill is true

That's very narrow minded. You sound like you know nothing about people or life in general.

You have women, and people in general who are extraordinarily shallow (black pill). You also have people who aren't (blue pill). And a spectrum of people in between. And sometimes, even the same person of a given personality can be extraordinarily shallow in some instances, and in other instances not, depending on different variables such as:

their stage in life (established career, vs. job centre)

their immediate environment

the influence their social circles / friends have on them

the societal systems (such as marriage, dating apps, etc.)

ideology or religion

stress

sleep quality

diet



If someone is getting their feed of potential partners through a dating app, then it hard for any person not to judge those potential partners on very superficial criteria. That is a more red/black pill environment. Whereas if someone is getting their feed of potential partners through mutual friends, social circles, or a workplace environment, then you likely get to know those people much better before asking them on a date for example. That is a more red/blue pill environment. It still is a mix of both, because people will be attracted to slightly superficial aspects such as your physique and tone of voice, but also your personality (which in contrast is not immediately obvious and far easier to fake through a dating app).

Apparently, even just the ambient colour or temperature of a room can for instance influence a person's mood to the extent that it may effect what they find sexually attractive in other people. The science I think is a little dubious around this area, but many casinos on the other hand have figured this out and use red colours to provoke more aggressive/risk taking behaviour to get their customers to spend more money.

Hence I don't like the black/red/blue pill ways of categorising human behaviour. It's an extremely amateurish way to assess people and women. There are better terms out there that you can use to explain why some people make smart choices and why other people make stupid choices.
(edited 7 months ago)
Reply 10
Real life is not binary in these ways, no matter how much half-baked shite you post asserting that it is.

Get outside and talk to people.
Reply 11
Original post by gjd800
Real life is not binary in these ways, no matter how much half-baked shite you post asserting that it is.

Get outside and talk to people.

Millions of men go out, talk to people and believe in the black pill. That's because they notice and experience in real life that the black pill principles are true. You don't even know that the black pill doesn't mean incel. Even girls and Chads can believe in the black pill, such as a handsome guy who acknowledges that his success with girls is mainly allowed by his looks
(edited 6 months ago)
Reply 12
Original post by NonIndigenous
That's very narrow minded. You sound like you know nothing about people or life in general.

You have women, and people in general who are extraordinarily shallow (black pill). You also have people who aren't (blue pill). And a spectrum of people in between. And sometimes, even the same person of a given personality can be extraordinarily shallow in some instances, and in other instances not, depending on different variables such as:

their stage in life (established career, vs. job centre)

their immediate environment

the influence their social circles / friends have on them

the societal systems (such as marriage, dating apps, etc.)

ideology or religion

stress

sleep quality

diet



If someone is getting their feed of potential partners through a dating app, then it hard for any person not to judge those potential partners on very superficial criteria. That is a more red/black pill environment. Whereas if someone is getting their feed of potential partners through mutual friends, social circles, or a workplace environment, then you likely get to know those people much better before asking them on a date for example. That is a more red/blue pill environment. It still is a mix of both, because people will be attracted to slightly superficial aspects such as your physique and tone of voice, but also your personality (which in contrast is not immediately obvious and far easier to fake through a dating app).

Apparently, even just the ambient colour or temperature of a room can for instance influence a person's mood to the extent that it may effect what they find sexually attractive in other people. The science I think is a little dubious around this area, but many casinos on the other hand have figured this out and use red colours to provoke more aggressive/risk taking behaviour to get their customers to spend more money.

Hence I don't like the black/red/blue pill ways of categorising human behaviour. It's an extremely amateurish way to assess people and women. There are better terms out there that you can use to explain why some people make smart choices and why other people make stupid choices.

What's narrow minded? They're opposite theories so only one of them is correct. The black pill believes that looks are the main point for dating and that an ugly guy can't have beautiful girls. If you think that's true you're blackpill, if you think that's false you're bluepill. Honestly I never notice ugly guys surrounded by hot girls whilst I do notice handsome guys chased by lots of girls, so I think the black pill has more truth.
Reply 13
Original post by Veet Voojagig
If you're going to bang on about black pill ideology, at least get it right.

It has nothing to do with people being shallow, but rather it has everything to do with its proponents being fatalistic and refusing to even try to better themselves. At least NonIndigenous hits the nail on the head by pointing out that "The 'black pill' mindset doesn't even give you a window of opportunity for self-improvement.".

^^^ This is why people like you choose to adopt this very mindset. It is the easy, cowardly way out.

You have posted nonsense like this before, and will no doubt continue to do so because you do not want to take a good long look in the mirror and see the things you don't like about yourself reflected right back at you. Far better to pretend that it is somebody else's problem than acknowledge that we are all works in progress... admittedly some more than others.

I would wish you the best and hope that you eventually start to put in some good hard work on yourself, but you won't. You know it. We all know it.

Your assumptions are poor and useless. You should ask yourself why the blackpill is getting very popular. Millions of experienced men agree on the blackpill, they're not necessarily incels. So your generalisation is narrow minded. Many goodlooking guys who have hot girls believe in the black pill. Many girls too believe in the black pill. Also your point of "improve" is a proof of the black pill because it means looks are the main point. So if you improve your looks by going to the gym you get more girls. Do you honestly see ugly guys with great personality having lots of beautiful girls? I think you're lying to yourself because you prefer a sweet lie as I said.
Reply 14
Original post by NameUserer
I think anyone seriously debating this should realise something: the strongest turn off to women is a man involved with the incel community. You're a virgin? You're short? You're fat? You're skinny? There's a women out there who likes that in a man. There are no women who want a man knee-deep in incel culture.

Would you date a man who spends all his free time hunched over some reddit forum somewhere, listing out all his physical flaws only to have the other guys tell him he's a low-value lost cause? You wouldn't, because it reeks of insecurity. Would you date a man who slavers over every little detail of the female form, while calling women hypergamous, man-hating robots, clustering around whatever 'chad' might buy them their next car? No, you wouldn't, because that man will respect neither you nor your consent. Would you date a guy who's so fixated on all the sex he's not having that he has no friends or hobbies? No, because he's boring.

I've heard people say that pick-up-artist gurus deliberately create a negative feedback loop when it comes to dating. Their grift targets men who've been rejected and had some bad experiences. They then sell them courses on picking up women filled with advice that'd make them avoid you like the plague, all while encouraging you to resent them for it. They keep it going for as long as they can, and if some twenty-something nutcase shoots up a shopping centre because he thinks women are sub-human, they don't care. Doesn't affect them.

You reverse the chronology. There are no women who like the physically ugly guys that you mentioned, so these guys after years of being rejected look for answers. They discover that the same failure is common between ugly guys despite having nice personalities. So it's the other way round
(edited 6 months ago)
Reply 15
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
Bluepill isn't the narrative for most of the movies that I watch. The leading romantic characters in films are almost always played by good looking actors.
What are the adult overweight and obesity statistics for the USA, UK, Europe? How often are the main characters in films overweight or obese?
It's like Hollywood exists in a parallel reality where the obesity epidemic doesn't exist.
And when films do feature a large actor, how often do they get to play the nerdy geeky type, or the comedy sidekick type, or a baddie?
How often do baddies have facial scars, compared to goodies?

Kawasa, a couple of weeks ago you posted a link to a video of a night out in Manchester at Halloween.
Looking at the men that were with women in that video, how many of the men were good looking, how many average and how many below average? You can look at other videos from that channel in order to gather more statistics.

The evidence to blow the Blackpill theory out the water is right there before your eyes with the click of a button.

Where? Most of them were alone or with female friends and they were half naked, this proves they were looking for Chads. What you fail to understand is female hypergamy, you use your male mindset on females as if they thought like a male. Monogamy was invented by ancient men because they noticed that some good-looking men were having a harem of girls, whilst other men were left out with nothing. Today women are free again to do what they want, that's why we notice it now
Original post by Kawasa
What's narrow minded? They're opposite theories so only one of them is correct. The black pill believes that looks are the main point for dating and that an ugly guy can't have beautiful girls. If you think that's true you're blackpill, if you think that's false you're bluepill. Honestly I never notice ugly guys surrounded by hot girls whilst I do notice handsome guys chased by lots of girls, so I think the black pill has more truth.

Regardless of what any individual believes is 'true' or 'false' doesn't automatically make it true or false. It is just a belief. Also Relativity and Quantum theories are in many ways opposites, yet both are correct. They just apply in different contexts.

Bluepill is more for relationship-minded people. Blackpill usually isn't. People don't normally fantasize about a relationship when they first meet you, that's probably quite unhealthy. They pay more attention to your superficial traits (blackpill). Then they might transition to bluepill-style thinking.

Also, I've occasionally been 'chased'. It's not the experience you likely think it is. Superficial shite such as big shoulders and generous spending habits get you noticed for sure, but guarantees nothing of quality. Sure, I have my own issues that often interfere with my overall dating experience. Often what has happened to me is they 'chase' for a little bit, and then if you actually show interest then they get all flaky for whatever reasons.

This literally happened again yesterday with a woman who I know was interested in me for some time. I was very undecided about her for a long while, but had a lot of time on my hands the past few days so I entertained the conversation and we made some plans. She would reply reasonably fast, would acknowledge my responses, and seemed like a reliable/good communicator. Then suddenly 'poof', left on read for a day. I'm not too bothered about it coming from her because I really didn't expect much. But it does still dampen the overall dating experience and straight up halved the attraction that I might have had for her.

Black or blue-pill schools of thought don't explain any of that, so it is in fact narrow minded.
(edited 6 months ago)
Original post by Kawasa
Your assumptions are poor and useless. You should ask yourself why the blackpill is getting very popular. Millions of experienced men agree on the blackpill, they're not necessarily incels. So your generalisation is narrow minded. Many goodlooking guys who have hot girls believe in the black pill. Many girls too believe in the black pill. Also your point of "improve" is a proof of the black pill because it means looks are the main point. So if you improve your looks by going to the gym you get more girls. Do you honestly see ugly guys with great personality having lots of beautiful girls? I think you're lying to yourself because you prefer a sweet lie as I said.

I was not thinking of looks at all when I said "improve", but I'm sure you know that because the term "self-improvement" is synonymous with personal development. You have just proven my point beautifully. You are so against the idea of working on yourself that you pretend not to even know what that is.

And, for the record, I am aro ace, so your black pill nonsense is even more ridiculous to me. I thoroughly enjoy the process of constantly trying to improve be the best version of myself, and I do it FOR ME. Perhaps if you tried to take pleasure in learning and growing as a person, you would not be such a sad individual.
Original post by Kawasa
Where? Most of them were alone or with female friends and they were half naked, this proves they were looking for Chads. What you fail to understand is female hypergamy, you use your male mindset on females as if they thought like a male. Monogamy was invented by ancient men because they noticed that some good-looking men were having a harem of girls, whilst other men were left out with nothing. Today women are free again to do what they want, that's why we notice it now

This is the video you posted a link to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc5OXwy8ls4

It's too boring to go through the whole video, but from a 3 minute section:
13:53 Guy with the girl in the red dress = normie
15:04 white top guy and girl. Guy = ugly to normie
15:09 blue vest = normie
15:22 man with the woman in the olive dress = ugly to normie
16:25 phone couple. Guy = normie
15:29 white trainer guy = normie
15:33 brown top guy = ugly
16:05 Mr Slaphead = ugly to normie depending on one's attraction to shaven headed men.
16:06 Black anorak, blue jeans = normie
16:12 beardy black T shirt = ugly
16:33 black cape = normie, possibly ugly.
16:48 black leather jacket = ugly
16:50 white T shirt red to orange trousers = normie
17:28 guy with the devil = normie
17:54 blond haired guy on the left in the black = ugly

So that's a pretty even distribution of normies to uglies with not a single Chad.

Edit: and then there's this latest video from the same channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv2XTlRTZgw
Every man that's with a woman in the first 90 seconds of this video is an ugly. With one exception where he's a borderline ugly to normie.

Chad theory getting blown out the water, video by video. From the channel that you used as an example of Chads getting all the women 🙂
(edited 6 months ago)
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
This is the video you posted a link to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc5OXwy8ls4

It's too boring to go through the whole video, but from a 3 minute section:
13:53 Guy with the girl in the red dress = normie
15:04 white top guy and girl. Guy = ugly to normie
15:09 blue vest = normie
15:22 man with the woman in the olive dress = ugly to normie
16:25 phone couple. Guy = normie
15:29 white trainer guy = normie
15:33 brown top guy = ugly
16:05 Mr Slaphead = ugly to normie depending on one's attraction to shaven headed men.
16:06 Black anorak, blue jeans = normie
16:12 beardy black T shirt = ugly
16:33 black cape = normie, possibly ugly.
16:48 black leather jacket = ugly
16:50 white T shirt red to orange trousers = normie
17:28 guy with the devil = normie
17:54 blond haired guy on the left in the black = ugly

So that's a pretty even distribution of normies to uglies with not a single Chad.

Edit: and then there's this latest video from the same channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv2XTlRTZgw
Every man that's with a woman in the first 90 seconds of this video is an ugly. With one exception where he's a borderline ugly to normie.

Chad theory getting blown out the water, video by video. From the channel that you used as an example of Chads getting all the women 🙂

PRSOM

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