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How is National Sovereignty Effected by EU Membership?

First, yes this is for a Politics Essay, however it is also a very interesting topic.

How is national sovereignty effected by EU membership?

Reply 1

Jim-ie

Should you even need to ask this? Its fairly obvious. It imposes laws and regulations on nations that may be resistant to certain changes. The real question should be asking yourself to find your answers for your essay, is if its a good or bad thing.

Reply 2

XCRUSHESX

Umm the 3 supranational institutions(European Commission, European Parliament and European Court of Justice) overwrite national govermental powers. And I would say that national governmental powers makes partially what national sovereignty is. Yes there is 2 intergovernmental institutions (Council of the European Union and the European Council) but the fact is that there is still some policy areas, laws and decisions made where the national government has no real say and still be penalised for not following it. Which is taking away some sort of freedom or choice.

LOL I am probably wrong, revised it a few days ago for resits:|

Reply 3

jamesjenkinsy

Jim-ie

Should i Say whether its a good or bad thing with an essay title like this "Does membership of the european union undermine national sovereignty?" It sounds to me like it just wants me to tell them why it does/doesn't??

Reply 4

jamesjenkinsy

XCRUSHESX

Thanks I think i currently have that down.

Points:
-European laws and regulations are superior to domestic laws and regulations

-Removal of unianious voting and vetoes and replaced with QMV

Not sure what else there is??? Its basically an A level essay, but i didn't do a level? anyone got any ideas?

Reply 5

XCRUSHESX

jamesjenkinsy

Thanks I think i currently have that down.

Points:
- European laws and regulations are superior to domestic laws and regulations

- Removal of unianious voting and vetoes and replaced with QMV

Not sure what else there is???

Absence of knowledge regarding the decision making process? strengthens to the impact/power of the 3 supranational institutions
European Commission not being an elected chamber? << Perhaps use that to stress the point of European Laws and regulations being superior to domestic law

Ahh don't think I was any help..
I tried lol :smile:

Reply 6

XCRUSHESX

Why it doesn't infringe on national sovereignty would be the fact that the Council of Ministers are part of the co-decision procedure with the European Parliament... so these elected national MEP's can act in relation of their national interest ALTHOUGH it is expected for MEP's to adopt a more 'european' attitude..

I think :|

Reply 7

jamesjenkinsy

Thanks crushes, be more confident you are right.

Reply 8

Jim-ie

jamesjenkinsy

That wasnt my point. Making your mind up on wether you believe it is a good thing or a bad thing will help you come to a conclusion on the essay as youll have to do research on why you formed that opinion, and letting you know what policies the EU has pushed onto memberstates and if it really does undermine national sovereignty. It'll do a lot more for you than asking people on TSR.

Lets put it this way. Is it a good thing that the EU pushes policies onto its member states? They, after all, signed up to the EU and its a voluntary membership.

I personally think it does but I also think that memberstates have a right to reject certain proposals if it goes against their own constitution. Look at the Republic of Ireland and the Lisbon treaty. There was a massive attempt to undermine Ireland when they voted No in a referendum and it was done through statements to the media, coldshouldering Irish minsiters, etc. This wasnt so much an attempt to undermine national sovreignty as it was to undermine the people in charge of the country, but they were certainly against a referendum being held which by Irish law must be done on any changes made to the consititution of the country, which the Lisbon treaty would affect.

Reply 9

JamesClough

The line appears over whether or not a state may secede from the EU. Until the EU would oppose a secession, then the answer is not at all.

Reply 10

sarcastic pratchett fan

The EU does not really impose on our sovereignty. Basically, we agree to give up some power in exchange for membership and the benefits that brings. We can withdraw at any time and the EU would have no power over us - Lord Denning (a Law Lord who has commented on basically every legal matter which exists) said ober dictum (kind of unofficially) that the courts would not see EU law as binding on it and would only enforce it to if Parliament tells it to. Parliament tells it to (treaties etc. and incorporated into our own law through Acts of Parliament) so the courts apply EU law but they would stop tommorrow if Parliament told it to stop. However, we would probably be kicked out of the EU, or possibly even destroy the EU if this happened - and it won't becuase being a member of the EU brongs too many benefits to quit.

Therefore, although we may have given up some power we have done so voluntarily and can reclaim it at any time (not that we will). Thus, parliament is still sovereign.

Reply 11

L i b

sarcastic pratchett fan

The EU does not really impose on our sovereignty. Basically, we agree to give up some power in exchange for membership and the benefits that brings. We can withdraw at any time and the EU would have no power over us - Lord Denning (a Law Lord who has commented on basically every legal matter which exists) said ober dictum (kind of unofficially) that the courts would not see EU law as binding on it and would only enforce it to if Parliament tells it to. Parliament tells it to (treaties etc. and incorporated into our own law through Acts of Parliament) so the courts apply EU law but they would stop tommorrow if Parliament told it to stop. However, we would probably be kicked out of the EU, or possibly even destroy the EU if this happened - and it won't becuase being a member of the EU brongs too many benefits to quit.

Ah, but the ECJ don't hold this opinion - believing the EU to be a new legal order not dependent on the enacting legislation of the member-states. There was a bit of a confrontation between the ECJ and the German Constitutional Court which has yet to be resolved: the Germans believe that EU law, since brought into German law by ordinary (as opposed to constitutional) legislation, does not have primacy over their constitution. The ECJ disagrees.

So ultimately, it's not much a matter of law, but a matter of power and politics: which if very firmly on the UK's side.

Reply 12

jacketpotato

The EU Parliament didn't used to have a role, only the non-directly elected council. Now that the directly elected European Parliament is getting more and more of a role, nationals get more of a direct say in how the EU works.

To add yet another lawyerly-analysis to the already-over-lawyered topic, the courts have made it clear that they still see parliament as sovereign: thus although there is no theoretical giving away of sovereignty, in practice it may matter a great deal.
There is a principle of 'subsidiarity' in EU law, which means that the EU isn't supposed to act outside of the goals very specifically assigned to it by the EU Treaty which all the member states agree to, and it can't act where a goal is better served by national countries doing it themselves. However, it has not been rigorously enforced.

Reply 13

sarcastic pratchett fan

L i b

Ah, but the ECJ don't hold this opinion - believing the EU to be a new legal order not dependent on the enacting legislation of the member-states. There was a bit of a confrontation between the ECJ and the German Constitutional Court which has yet to be resolved: the Germans believe that EU law, since brought into German law by ordinary (as opposed to constitutional) legislation, does not have primacy over their constitution. The ECJ disagrees.

So ultimately, it's not much a matter of law, but a matter of power and politics: which if very firmly on the UK's side.

That is true, but this is partially due to the way German law works - in British law no Parliament can bind any future Parliament so under British law, the EU has no grounds to force our courts to apply its laws. It does under EU law, as was demonstrated in another case about a decade ago in Germany. But if we were to refuse point blank to apply the laws, what could the EU do? Invade?

The current disagreement with Germany will be resolved by Germany accpeting defeat (probably with concessions made by the EC in the background) because it has no other real available choice. The fuss was kicked up by a couple of politicians who wanted to get votes out of not backing down without a fight.

I agree that really all that is a matter of political expediency, rather than real law or even political theories.

Reply 14

L i b

jacketpotato

To add yet another lawyerly-analysis to the already-over-lawyered topic, the courts have made it clear that they still see parliament as sovereign

When? The question of parliamentary sovereignty is, and always has been, one of considerable academic debate.

Reply 15

sarcastic pratchett fan

L i b

When? The question of parliamentary sovereignty is, and always has been, one of considerable academic debate.

I think he is referring to a number of ober dicta commments (such as those made by Lord Denning) made by many judges examining constitutional cases in the last decade or so.

Of course this is a very lawyerly discussion - the subject is the law.