Grammar Schools = Higher Offers?

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Lord Huntroyde

But at a grammar everyone wants to do well and everyone works hard.

That is another ridiculous argument I always hear. Many of my (more disruptive) friends went to Grammar schools, and from what I've heard, there is equal amounts of pointless disruption in their classes as mine.
The idea that cleverer people are always hard working/quite is absurd.

Reply 41

Bigcnee

That's not true in my experience, but it must depend on the size of the school.

Reply 42

Bigcnee

Lord Huntroyde

That's not true in my experience, but it must depend on the size of the school.

My area has the highest number of Grammar schools in England. They are not achieving how they should.

Grammar schools should get 100% A*-C passes. None in my area acheived this, and the only Comprehensive did (of those in the Grammar stream).

Reply 43

Bigcnee

That is not the case where I live, where we have some of the worst comps and some of the best grammars.

Reply 44

happysunshine

Bigcnee

They are not achieving how they should.

Grammar schools should get 100% A*-C passes. None in my area acheived this, and the only Comprehensive did (of those in the Grammar stream).

Even if they do not achieve 100% A*-C passes, it is still better than being in a comp which only gets say 25% - but by everyone not getting 5A*-C's it does show that either the teaching isn't up to scratch or the pupils aren't.

Reply 45

Bigcnee

happysunshine

Er... you cannot directly compare comps and grammars from just A*-C passes. YOU need to analyse the results of the top stream in Comps with Grammars, so that your sample is of equal ability.
The only way you can accurately judge schools is through their results (and maybe Ofsted).

Grammar schools should get the best results, because they attract the best students. THe reasons they attract the best students is often due is misconception. Often grammar schools draw away the students which would otherwise go to Comps, and thus a good comp could look crap due to its bad results.

Reply 46

happysunshine

Bigcnee

Haha! Well that told me (quite well too), I'm just very biased :smile:

Reply 47

But it's an indesputable fact that a large number of parents want there children to go to a grammar because there are fewer trouble-makers and the results achieved are excellent.

Reply 48

Bigcnee

happysunshine

I'm just very biased :smile:

I think we all are, unless you feel your school has let you down.
I got the option to go to a Grammar but decided not to because the Grammar schools in my area were failing. I'm just against the whole 11+ system. It puts lots of pressure on kids to perform at such an early age.

Reply 49

happysunshine

Bigcnee

I'm not so bothered about not going to a Grammar School but I would've liked to go to a comp. school that had better results and stuff. I agree about 11+, maybe it would've been a good idea to use SAT results but I guess that is still pressure.

Reply 50

Bigcnee

Lord Huntroyde

But it's an indesputable fact that a large number of parents want there children to go to a grammar because there are fewer trouble-makers and the results achieved are excellent.

YOu are equally likely to get a trouble maker in a grammar school class as the grammar-equivalent of a comprehensive.

You cant compare comp and grammar results DIRECTLY. It doesn't make sense.
THe results look excellent, obviously. Therein lies the trouble.

Reply 51

fionah

I went to a high school that had 20% a-c grades for GCSE. That's all!! The science department had failed the ofsted and it was all pretty awful. But then again, I'm sure there are grammar schools in a bad state as well.

At the end of the day though, if you get better grades at A level, you have a better understanding of the syllabus that is supposed to be a prelude to a degree, so bearing that in mind you should be more equipped to deal with the degree.. There's no point in saying someone at a comprehensive school can come onto a course with a C grade, but a person from a grammar with B grade can't come. It's just not fair. The application process should stay as it is with regards to entrance requirements.

I know that if you get a B from a bad school, it's different to getting an A from a good school, but it would be rather difficult to monitor surely, the whole of a persons educational history would have to be taken into account for it to be fair. It sounds bad but it's just one of the many things about life that is shit!

Reply 52

happysunshine

fionah

I went to a high school that had 20% a-c grades for GCSE. That's all!!

I wish they'd get rid of those 'Percentage of Students who get 5 A*-C grades' league tables and change it to 'Percentage of all Grades A*C'. I think this as a lot of emphasis is put on the number 5, when really it isn't that good only passing 5 GCSEs out of the standard 10. People give up when they know they are going to achieve their 5 C's and usually those aren't in all the core subjects. The league tables make out that anyone achieving 5 C's is intelligent when that usually isn't the case as in subjects like English you can easily scrape by with poor spelling, handwriting and little analytical skills, skills that you need for employment. That said, I can't spell so this system favours me but it really shouldn't.

Reply 53

happysunshine

But 5 C's is generally the minimum for going on to A-levels.

Reply 54

happysunshine

Lord Huntroyde

But 5 C's is generally the minimum for going on to A-levels.

I just don't think it is something great to aim for 'Oh as long as I get my 5Cs' is something I hear lots of times as if its fine to fail the rest. Also they should up that 5C's to encourage more people to work harder and usually those are the people who struggle as they usually have a bunch of F's behind them.

Reply 55

fionah

happysunshine

I agree with you really, it's not a fair representation.. But I'm just using that as an the eg. of the results of the school I was at (ie. 20% managing to achieve that isn't very good!!) .. just to show that I disagree with the idea that grammar students should get higher offers, BUT that I would potentially benefit from a lower offer if this change was to occur..

Reply 56

happysunshine

fionah

Oh no! I was not disagreeing with anything you said. I just had something to say and you had something about the GCSE pass rate so I thought I'd take a quote from your passage instead of looking like it what I said came from no-where!

I was actually thinking what a good point she has made and thinking wow, she can write considering the GCSE pass rate (similar to my school).

Reply 57

Unregistered

Bigcnee

I cant agree with you there, I've experienced both the worst end of the state system and also the independent sector, and I found the state system hugely more disruptive. Thats not to say there wasnt disruption in the independent grammar too, but I dont think you're right- there was much less in the state school I attended.

Reply 58

Unregistered

I h8 to be rude Bigcnee but ur argument is pathetic. No1 said that comps dont have any good teachers, that is obvously not rue. No1 said that people from comps cant do well, that 2 would obvously be a lie. U keep backing up ur arguments with 'research shows', well were is this research? I would quite like to see it.

I dont think there is any right/wrong answer to this argument....niether research or opinion can really help. Though, is there any1 out there who did their AS's at a comp, and their A2's at a grammer? Or other way around? Maybe they would know...

I'm not at all sure why you think you're being rude to bigcnee as it appears you agree with him! You asked for research which backs up his assertions so here it is - just one report from many of a similar vein
http://www.casenet.org.uk/success.html
P.

Reply 59