Grammar Schools = Higher Offers?

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LH
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#61
Report 18 years ago
#61
(Original post by Unregistered)
I'm not at all sure why you think you're being rude to bigcnee as it appears you agree with him! You asked for research which backs up his assertions so here it is - just one report from many of a similar vein
http://www.casenet.org.uk/success.html
P.
Want a link to a different view point?

http://www.ngsa.org.uk/news/news_4.html
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#62
Report 18 years ago
#62
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Want a link to a different view point?

http://www.ngsa.org.uk/news/news_4.html
But that link is for the national grammar schools association! Hardly unbiased!!!
P.
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LH
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Unregistered)
But that link is for the national grammar schools association! Hardly unbiased!!!
P.
And your links are unbiased? Most reports are biased. And if you read the link it is someone who compiled a report against grammars admitting much of his data was incorrect.
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LH
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#64
Report 18 years ago
#64
When some of his previous conclusions were challenged by Professor S. J. Prais in 'Grammar Schools' Achievements and the DfEE's Measures of Value-added: an attempt at clarification' (Oxford Review of Education, Vol. 27, No. 1, 2001), Professor Jesson 'retracted his findings' and admitted to The Daily Telegraph (21 May 2001) that his 'Anti-grammar school data was wrong'.
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Unregistered
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#65
Report 18 years ago
#65
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
When some of his previous conclusions were challenged by Professor S. J. Prais in 'Grammar Schools' Achievements and the DfEE's Measures of Value-added: an attempt at clarification' (Oxford Review of Education, Vol. 27, No. 1, 2001), Professor Jesson 'retracted his findings' and admitted to The Daily Telegraph (21 May 2001) that his 'Anti-grammar school data was wrong'.
Guardian of 12th February, 2002 states:
Professor Jessons research into the performance of 14-16 year olds in schools in selective areas has revealed little difference in GCSE results of top 25% of students, whether from grammars or comprehensives. He believes an inquiry with clear terms of reference could take some of the political heat out of the issue.
"We now have access to a very extensive source of information about the progree pupils make in different kins of schools that is quite objective".
Now we can go around in circles giving each other opposing quotes but the main contention is your belief that a grammar school gives a better education to students of comparable intelligence - this is just not true. I am sure that if you are quite bright you would do just as well in a comprehensive school. See also research commissioned by Nfer (who provide educational resources to schools) which comes to same conclusions as Prof. Jesson.
P.
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#66
Report 18 years ago
#66
(Original post by Bigcnee)
Er... you cannot directly compare comps and grammars from just A*-C passes. YOU need to analyse the results of the top stream in Comps with Grammars, so that your sample is of equal ability.
The only way you can accurately judge schools is through their results (and maybe Ofsted).

Grammar schools should get the best results, because they attract the best students. THe reasons they attract the best students is often due is misconception. Often grammar schools draw away the students which would otherwise go to Comps, and thus a good comp could look crap due to its bad results.
Errr that is completley wrong u fool....that wouldnt work at all. You would have to compare the worst students as well...infact this would still be wrong. Ofsted is the only way to know
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Unregistered
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#67
Report 18 years ago
#67
(Original post by Unregistered)
Errr that is completley wrong u fool....that wouldnt work at all. You would have to compare the worst students as well...infact this would still be wrong. Ofsted is the only way to know
I know who is the fool here and it ain't bigcnee! To get a representative comparison between the results of students in Grammar schools and Comprehensives you obviously have to start from the same benchmark i.e. comparable ability. Therefore, as it is the top 25% ability range that normally go to Grammar schools, the comparison is with the top quarter percentile at Comprehensives. The results show that achievement levels are very similar with the exception of the 98%per centile who do better at Comprehensives! Why that should be in very much a matter of conjecture and until more research is done into this anomaly we do not know for sure.
Regarding bigcnee's point about creaming off of top quartile into Grammar schools and resultant dilution of results in Comprehensives, he is again absolutely correct. Extensive research into the results of counties that are wholly selective has shown that although the county may have a few schools achieving more highly than nationwide they also have considerably more underachieving schools as comprehensives cannot be truly comprehensive when their intake is distorted by removal of bulk of top quartile.
Ofsted can only make judgements on achievement from the school's published results - any other judgements are based on their inspection of class based activities and these are benchmarked from the school's particular strengths and weaknesses, not in comparison with any other school.
Now do you understand?
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Unregistered
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#68
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#68
anyway.....back to the orignal posters question........that person came on her for advice, not an argument...................
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LH
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Unregistered)
anyway.....back to the orignal posters question........that person came on her for advice, not an argument...................
You shouldn't post on here if you don't want an arguement.
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Juwel
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Unregistered)
anyway.....back to the orignal posters question........that person came on her for advice, not an argument...................
Came on her? Dodgy...
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Bigcnee
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#71
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#71
(Original post by Unregistered)
Errr that is completley wrong u fool....that wouldnt work at all. You would have to compare the worst students as well...infact this would still be wrong. Ofsted is the only way to know
You are clearly out of your depth in understanding simple ideas.

We are discussing the best education for the top 25%.

If you don't understand, don't post calling me a fool! :rolleyes:
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LH
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#72
Report 18 years ago
#72
(Original post by ZJuwelH)
Came on her? Dodgy...
lol, not the best way of getting advice from someone...
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Juwel
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#73
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#73
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
lol, not the best way of getting advice from someone...
Depends who you are I suppose...
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LH
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#74
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#74
(Original post by ZJuwelH)
Depends who you are I suppose...
True.
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Unregistered
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#75
Report 18 years ago
#75
hmm...i think i should join her as all the unregs posting gets confusing, how can we tell which unreg is the original poster. I did register b4, but the kept not letting me in
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Bigcnee
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
True.
I've noticed you've gone very quiet since unregistered starting posting their well-informed opinion. Based on FACTS.
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LH
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Unregistered)
hmm...i think i should join her as all the unregs posting gets confusing, how can we tell which unreg is the original poster. I did register b4, but the kept not letting me in
Have you been banned?
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LH
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#78
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#78
(Original post by Bigcnee)
I've noticed you've gone very quiet since unregistered starting posting their well-informed opinion. Based on FACTS.
Which unregistered is that?
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Unregistered
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#79
Report 18 years ago
#79
I dont think unreg's should be allowed to post....semms funny me saying it! lol .. no i wasnt banned, i didnt really do anything wrong. All i did was talk to Mr White, and that was about it!
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Bigcnee
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#80
Report 18 years ago
#80
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Which unregistered is that?
The unregistered who seems better informed than anyone else here.
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