The Student Room Group

US signals support for possible ICC sanctions over Israel warrants

One rule for me, another for thee :rolleyes:

Ignoring their constant caterwauling about 'oh but theyre not the same, you're just an antisemite' blah blah blah... it does rather publicly ram home the message that China and Russia et al. have been pushing for years that the 'international rules based system' is, well, nothing of the sort.
It's actually kind of impressive, assuming that vote goes ahead/passes they will arguably, be doing more damage to the US's image than Bush managed when he was dropping bombs willy nilly all over the place.


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp66e6ppzd0o
The 'international rules-based system' has always been nothing. It was the hubris of the west with its position as hegemon thinking they can impose an ‘'international rules-based system' in the first place and make no mistake that’s what it was. The likes of Russia and China don’t care about it at all, they never have, they just do whatever they want regardless. They just hold the west to it and point out every time we don’t follow it, but the truth is no one follows it when its not convenient. The likes of Russia and China just use it as a weapon against us and they can do this because any attempt to implement such a global order depends entirely on the will and ability to enforce it which the west naively thought it could do with sanctions and not bombs. Its time to let the whole thing wither and die.

This is clear as day with Israel and Russia. We, the west, held Russia to some standard and they didn’t care at all lol, neither did anyone else, now we want to hold Israel, our ally, to the same standard where it will have effect. Thats why the US wants to stop it and I can’t blame them. Holding only ourselves to account only weakens us.
Reply 2
Original post by Djtoodles
The 'international rules-based system' has always been nothing. It was the hubris of the west with its position as hegemon thinking they can impose an ‘'international rules-based system' in the first place and make no mistake that’s what it was. The likes of Russia and China don’t care about it at all, they never have, they just do whatever they want regardless. They just hold the west to it and point out every time we don’t follow it, but the truth is no one follows it when its not convenient. The likes of Russia and China just use it as a weapon against us and they can do this because any attempt to implement such a global order depends entirely on the will and ability to enforce it which the west naively thought it could do with sanctions and not bombs. Its time to let the whole thing wither and die.
This is clear as day with Israel and Russia. We, the west, held Russia to some standard and they didn’t care at all lol, neither did anyone else, now we want to hold Israel, our ally, to the same standard where it will have effect. Thats why the US wants to stop it and I can’t blame them. Holding only ourselves to account only weakens us.

I must admit i disagree with a few things in here but i'm going to focus on the last bit, concerning holding our 'ally' to said standard.
Firstly, i would vehemently disagree that Israel is in any way, shape or form our ally. America's? Possibly but its still reaching. After all, allies are essentially 'there for each other'. I am aware of absolutely no occasion worthy of note when Israel has ever stood beside any country, at all. In fact, it has a history of throwing said allies under the bus, or actively attacking them like it has America. Simply put, Israel takes a hell of a lot (like our international credibility and citizens lives) but gives very little. From their point of view, fair enough you look out for numero uno. But if you insist on calling themn our 'ally' they are doubtless the worst ally, bar Italy in wwi/ii, in history.

Otherwise, given the tone of your comment, i cant really fault it. That being said, do you really want to explicitly state we're no better than a neo-Stalinist or borderline maoist? I mean, the kinetic facts speak for themselves. We've killed a lot more innocent people than either of those two leaders but historically we've at least pretended to be doing it for laudable reasons.
I must admit i disagree with a few things in here but i'm going to focus on the last bit, concerning holding our 'ally' to said standard.
Firstly, i would vehemently disagree that Israel is in any way, shape or form our ally. America's? Possibly but its still reaching. After all, allies are essentially 'there for each other'. I am aware of absolutely no occasion worthy of note when Israel has ever stood beside any country, at all. In fact, it has a history of throwing said allies under the bus, or actively attacking them like it has America. Simply put, Israel takes a hell of a lot (like our international credibility and citizens lives) but gives very little. From their point of view, fair enough you look out for numero uno. But if you insist on calling themn our 'ally' they are doubtless the worst ally, bar Italy in wwi/ii, in history.
Otherwise, given the tone of your comment, i cant really fault it. That being said, do you really want to explicitly state we're no better than a neo-Stalinist or borderline maoist? I mean, the kinetic facts speak for themselves. We've killed a lot more innocent people than either of those two leaders but historically we've at least pretended to be doing it for laudable reasons.
Maybe ally is too strong a word, but certainly more friendly to the west. I don’t think Israel has much to give honestly but given the context of it all, the strategic aspects especially, supporting them is the right move. The particulars of the Israel/West/USA relationship means they are more vulnerable the international rules that the west set up, rules we have regularly broken ourselves funnily enough, we just have to go through the motions simply because its Israel and not ourselves directly.

I just think it’s time we all just stop pretending although we have killed significantly fewer “innocent” people than Mao or Stalin, they didn’t do it with missiles and bombs but still. Not that the actual body count matters much, if one body is too many, we are all guilty of the same thing. I’d say we are less “evil” than those you mention simply because I think the things we do stand for are better, then again everyone thinks or pretends they are justified and right but at the end of the day it’s all violence and death in the pursuit of some objectives/goals.

When we, the west, as the hegemon set up the 'international rules-based system' which is based on our supposed values, I don’t think we expected it to become the weakness that it has. The countries that don’t care about it Russia/China et al just use it as a weapon against us, it does nothing to those countries because they simply don’t care and we don’t have the will to enforce it, everyone just points out when we break these rules. Its time we let it die.

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