The Student Room Group

Does the car dealership owe me money?

I bought a car from this dealership on the 10th of August 2023. The price was £2250 in total for the car and the warranty. I now find the car have the following faults:
A problem with the brake lights system (loose wire connections) which I got repaired myself by a mechanic. When the mechanic did an assessment he noticed a few lights weren’t working. When I press the break only the middle light comes on the other 2 lights don't come on but I got this issue fixed by a mechanic.
I reported another problem to the dealership repeatedly with the car not starting due to the engine rev getting too low and the engine cutting out because of it. I have contacted them about this many times since September 2023. I was unable to drive the car because of it. I contacted them about this several times through phone, email and WhatsApp
I bought the car as they offered me 12-months extended warranty with it. When I tried multiple times to activate the warranty to fix some of the issues I was falsely promised that this would be sorted by various dates and passed around various colleagues. They then said they would replace the warranty with their own, which offered far less than the warranty I purchased. On request, they then refunded me the price I paid for the warranty. They did not provide me with any other solutions however I do not believe this is right or just as they have essentially sold me the car on a falsehood and to an extent, fraudulently. Had I known that they could not facilitate the warranty I would not have purchased the vehicle and would have returned it as soon as these issues arose but I was under the impression I had warranty thus kept the car waiting for the warranty to be activated. I have a receipt and mechanic report of the brake light issue but none of the engine issue except for the contacts I made the the dealership about the issue. I first contacted them on the 21st of September 2023 regard these issues. I have also sent 2 letters by post using advice from citizens advice but haven't got any replies from them. What should I do now am I wrong or are they? They didn't pay for the brake lights issue and didn't do anything when I reported the fault on the engine either. They did ask for evidence of the fault on the engine later but by then it was fixed by my cousin.

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I think you might need to live with it. Not what you want to hear but 3rd party warranties on used cars are pretty much a waste of money - they're loaded with small print excluding things and making claiming v difficult.

With the lights, were they working at the time you bought it? IMO That's something you should have checked & brought up at the time of sale, if the lights failed sometime after you bought it's hard to blame the seller, light bulbs do go pop with wiring & connectors going bad with age/heat cycle (prob not covered by warranty), and for £2250 I need to assume we're talking a car over 10 years old where wear & tear has to be factored into it's price

Likewise the engine, did it do this on test drive/as soon as you bought it, or did the issue only appear later? as that has a big impact on whether they have any responsibility over it - if it's something like say exhaust issues, fuel pump, bad spark/coil, mass air sensor, vacuum lines etc - all things that could potentially stall the car or mess with rpms, then almost all of this would likely count as wear and tear and almost certainly not covered by warranty.

I can't speak for the garage giving you the run around rather than being direct with you, some are sadly known for working that way - but considering both these issues v likely weren't covered by this warranty, the warranty has been refunded and you've already had them fixed elsewhere without now being able to prove them and we're also considerably past the point I believe you could return the car - what would you really be expecting them to do about it all now?

What was the issue that your cousin fixed btw?
Reply 2
Original post by StriderHort
I think you might need to live with it. Not what you want to hear but 3rd party warranties on used cars are pretty much a waste of money - they're loaded with small print excluding things and making claiming v difficult.
With the lights, were they working at the time you bought it? IMO That's something you should have checked & brought up at the time of sale, if the lights failed sometime after you bought it's hard to blame the seller, light bulbs do go pop with wiring & connectors going bad with age/heat cycle (prob not covered by warranty), and for £2250 I need to assume we're talking a car over 10 years old where wear & tear has to be factored into it's price
Likewise the engine, did it do this on test drive/as soon as you bought it, or did the issue only appear later? as that has a big impact on whether they have any responsibility over it - if it's something like say exhaust issues, fuel pump, bad spark/coil, mass air sensor, vacuum lines etc - all things that could potentially stall the car or mess with rpms, then almost all of this would likely count as wear and tear and almost certainly not covered by warranty.
I can't speak for the garage giving you the run around rather than being direct with you, some are sadly known for working that way - but considering both these issues v likely weren't covered by this warranty, the warranty has been refunded and you've already had them fixed elsewhere without now being able to prove them and we're also considerably past the point I believe you could return the car - what would you really be expecting them to do about it all now?
What was the issue that your cousin fixed btw?

So firstly I contacted them about these issues in the first month after purchasing the car so legally wouldn't I have been eligible to return the car then and then. As for my cousin he isn't a professional mechanic he just knows a lot about cars. He kept trying different methods then one worked which was as soon as he started the ignition he had to accelerate and hold it at 1500rpm for 5 mins. Idid this for about 3-4 weeks then one day I reved a bit too much after starting but it seemed to fix that issue and I haven't had it since
Original post by Rohan007best
So firstly I contacted them about these issues in the first month after purchasing the car so legally wouldn't I have been eligible to return the car then and then. As for my cousin he isn't a professional mechanic he just knows a lot about cars. He kept trying different methods then one worked which was as soon as he started the ignition he had to accelerate and hold it at 1500rpm for 5 mins. Idid this for about 3-4 weeks then one day I reved a bit too much after starting but it seemed to fix that issue and I haven't had it since

You may need to adjust the idle setting. The car should idle at about 700 RPM.

You bought a cheap old car. The sort of defects you describe are to be expected in a car priced at not much over £2000. Nothing in your post suggests that the garage acted fraudulently.

SB (a lawyer and car nerd)
(edited 7 months ago)
Reply 4
It depends what the warranty covered and I don’t understand why you accepted a refund on it. Get some legal advice and if appropriate go for a small claims court hearing. You may though have to put this down to experience
Reply 5
Original post by Zarek
It depends what the warranty covered and I don’t understand why you accepted a refund on it. Get some legal advice and if appropriate go for a small claims court hearing. You may though have to put this down to experience

Hi the reason I took the refund was because they were adamant they won't provide what they said initially with the warranty so I took the refund so that at least I had a bit of money back
Reply 6
Original post by Rohan007best
Hi the reason I took the refund was because they were adamant they won't provide what they said initially with the warranty so I took the refund so that at least I had a bit of money back

I suppose it might be the only money you get but seems to undermine any claim. Legal advice is the only hope
Original post by Rohan007best
So firstly I contacted them about these issues in the first month after purchasing the car so legally wouldn't I have been eligible to return the car then and then. As for my cousin he isn't a professional mechanic he just knows a lot about cars. He kept trying different methods then one worked which was as soon as he started the ignition he had to accelerate and hold it at 1500rpm for 5 mins. Idid this for about 3-4 weeks then one day I reved a bit too much after starting but it seemed to fix that issue and I haven't had it since

It's honestly hard to answer about the engine issue without seeing it/knowing more. Was it doing any of this when you test drove/started it? It really depends what exactly your cousin did to fix it and I can see you're obv asking other Qs about these engine issues so I dunno if actually fixed? But in the case of the lights, that's something I feel you should have checked and/or challenged at the time, and if they go bad even the next day that's your problem, even if it's just a loose or bad wire and a 3rd party warranty won't cover such things. As above, with the engine there could be lots of wear & tears reasons that also wouldn't be covered.

As @Stiffy Byng talks about above, when you're shopping for cars around £2k or lower, especially from a trader seller you are always going to be taking your chances with older and well worn vehicles. When you think about it, you're paying maybe 10-15% of what it cost new so there will always have to be compromises - most of these cheaper vehicles on a lot will have been trade ins from other customers or bought in cheap from auctions and the dealer just wants them gone, and consumer rights or not you'll have an uphill battle getting the money back out of them. As a buyer of broken old cars I can tell you the closer you get to 1-2k there's more of an assumption the vehicle has issues, is sold as seen and no return is allowed - do whatever inspection you want before you buy it, but don't bring it back.
Reply 8
Original post by StriderHort
It's honestly hard to answer about the engine issue without seeing it/knowing more. Was it doing any of this when you test drove/started it? It really depends what exactly your cousin did to fix it and I can see you're obv asking other Qs about these engine issues so I dunno if actually fixed? But in the case of the lights, that's something I feel you should have checked and/or challenged at the time, and if they go bad even the next day that's your problem, even if it's just a loose or bad wire and a 3rd party warranty won't cover such things. As above, with the engine there could be lots of wear & tears reasons that also wouldn't be covered.
As @Stiffy Byng talks about above, when you're shopping for cars around £2k or lower, especially from a trader seller you are always going to be taking your chances with older and well worn vehicles. When you think about it, you're paying maybe 10-15% of what it cost new so there will always have to be compromises - most of these cheaper vehicles on a lot will have been trade ins from other customers or bought in cheap from auctions and the dealer just wants them gone, and consumer rights or not you'll have an uphill battle getting the money back out of them. As a buyer of broken old cars I can tell you the closer you get to 1-2k there's more of an assumption the vehicle has issues, is sold as seen and no return is allowed - do whatever inspection you want before you buy it, but don't bring it back.

I understand what your saying it was my first car I bought after passing so I didn't have much knowledge about cars in general or what to check without buying. I suppose with what everyones said I might as well just give up and sell the car for cheap then waste my time further thanks for the advice anyways
Original post by Rohan007best
I understand what your saying it was my first car I bought after passing so I didn't have much knowledge about cars in general or what to check without buying. I suppose with what everyones said I might as well just give up and sell the car for cheap then waste my time further thanks for the advice anyways

Well am I wrong in thinking the car works decently enough now? you're still getting use out of it?

I've done the exact same as have millions others, I've went out all fresh faced to buy my first car and bought a near £2k turd, I was saved once because I paid by credit card which gives you options, but I've still been essentially scammed down the line.
Original post by StriderHort
Well am I wrong in thinking the car works decently enough now? you're still getting use out of it?
I've done the exact same as have millions others, I've went out all fresh faced to buy my first car and bought a near £2k turd, I was saved once because I paid by credit card which gives you options, but I've still been essentially scammed down the line.

Yh its driveable and I suppose that's what matters the most. Any tips for buying cars for the future please?
Original post by Rohan007best
Yh its driveable and I suppose that's what matters the most. Any tips for buying cars for the future please?

Tbh if this all got fixed with a wiring fix to the brake lights and your cousin doing some sort of pedal/button reset sequence which seems to have fixed the RPM issues, then for what you paid you're kinda doing ok, as said at this sort of price point & age there will always be some variety of issues - metal rusts, paint fades & old digital media interfaces go weird and plastic grows brittle. As said you're paying a fraction of the original cost, so plan for those realities.

I do buy and sell a fair amount of questionable cars so for cheap car advice IMO;

Check MOT history online first, if the seller has hidden their number plate that's a problem, ask and if they don't give it walk away. Get insurance quotes first, you really don't want to buy THEN get a bad surprise, same with tax.

Anything beyond minor corrosion and oil leaks - walk away - yeah it might not be that bad or localised but you can prob just do without that hassle unless you have the space and skills to repair. Plenty of ads will say MOT welding fail or 'needs a bit of welding for MOT' - walk away, if it was that simple they'd have it done themselves.

Don't get emotionally invested in the car before you go to see it, easy to do but will cloud your judgement when it comes to looking at faults and talking about price - there's always more to look at and used cars are v hard to return.

Always test drive - right at first you might not really know what to look for, but see how it performs forward and back through gears, how the brakes bite, how the suspension holds up on bumps and corners - do the cabin controls work like seats, AC, music and error messages on the dash? If you can't test drive prob best walk away.

I'm a hypocrite here, but if you don't really know what's what and spending more than 2-3k, I'd maybe pay someone from AA/RAC/local to come out and give the car an inspection first, it might be £100-150 but save you a lot of headache.
Bangernomics makes sense but you have to exercise a bit of savvy, and expect a few mishaps. You get better at it with practice. Buying a new car is daft. Leasing or otherwise financing a new car is hyper-daft. Cheap cars make sense and re-use, recycle is better for the planet.
Reply 13
Original post by Rohan007best
I bought a car from this dealership on the 10th of August 2023. The price was £2250 in total for the car and the warranty. I now find the car have the following faults:
A problem with the brake lights system (loose wire connections) which I got repaired myself by a mechanic. When the mechanic did an assessment he noticed a few lights weren’t working. When I press the break only the middle light comes on the other 2 lights don't come on but I got this issue fixed by a mechanic.
I reported another problem to the dealership repeatedly with the car not starting due to the engine rev getting too low and the engine cutting out because of it. I have contacted them about this many times since September 2023. I was unable to drive the car because of it. I contacted them about this several times through phone, email and WhatsApp
I bought the car as they offered me 12-months extended warranty with it. When I tried multiple times to activate the warranty to fix some of the issues I was falsely promised that this would be sorted by various dates and passed around various colleagues. They then said they would replace the warranty with their own, which offered far less than the warranty I purchased. On request, they then refunded me the price I paid for the warranty. They did not provide me with any other solutions however I do not believe this is right or just as they have essentially sold me the car on a falsehood and to an extent, fraudulently. Had I known that they could not facilitate the warranty I would not have purchased the vehicle and would have returned it as soon as these issues arose but I was under the impression I had warranty thus kept the car waiting for the warranty to be activated. I have a receipt and mechanic report of the brake light issue but none of the engine issue except for the contacts I made the the dealership about the issue. I first contacted them on the 21st of September 2023 regard these issues. I have also sent 2 letters by post using advice from citizens advice but haven't got any replies from them. What should I do now am I wrong or are they? They didn't pay for the brake lights issue and didn't do anything when I reported the fault on the engine either. They did ask for evidence of the fault on the engine later but by then it was fixed by my cousin.

Did you purchase the car with a credit card? or finance? if you did, you can complain to the credit card provider or finance company. You will also have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) for free once you have complained to the credit card or finance company.
Original post by biggyash
Did you purchase the car with a credit card? or finance? if you did, you can complain to the credit card provider or finance company. You will also have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) for free once you have complained to the credit card or finance company.

Complain about what? The OP has no legitimate beef against the seller. His rights against a credit card lender are no better than his rights against the seller.
Reply 15
Original post by Stiffy Byng
Complain about what? The OP has no legitimate beef against the seller. His rights against a credit card lender are no better than his rights against the seller.

Angry much? A S.75 claim via credit card for faulty goods, or the right to reject the vehicle under the finance agreement if it exists. All of which would be determined by the financial ombudsman service.
Original post by biggyash
Angry much? A S.75 claim via credit card for faulty goods, or the right to reject the vehicle under the finance agreement if it exists. All of which would be determined by the financial ombudsman service.

As someone who has made a successful claim again a motor trader via my credit card I really don't think there's much of a claim here for 3 main reasons

OP has had the car and used it for nearly a year
OP has taken the car elsewhere for work
It's unlikely the seller is responsible for these probable wear & tear issues, you aren't getting a refund over a loose light wire or some odd RPM business that your mate 'fixed' (how would you even prove it existed now or was present when you bought the car?)

For mine I had to send evidence of severe corrosion and a report from a mechanic stating that the vehicle was dangerous with the defects outwith what could be considered reasonable wear & tear etc, and as I made my claim a month or so after buying it, it was clear the issue was present at the time of sale.
Hi one thing I want to clarify is I mentioned it to the garage in the first month of purchasing it. I waited a little long as I assumed the warranty they initially said they would provide was valid. The whole reason for me wanting to refund was because they lied about the warranty. I bought the car for the warranty it covered so much including engine issues etc. Only then when I tried to activate the warranty they said it wont work because the car is too old but had they told me this when I was buying the car I wouldn't have bought the car in the first place. I've been consistently emailing, calling and making the dealership. Since September 2023 till about April 2024 which is when I decided to just give up. I told them about the engine issue but at the time I didn't know I had to record evidence I just thought simply telling them was enough. I only recorded the issue with brake lights as it was then I realised I should keep evidence. I had no choice but to fix these issues through a mechanic and my cousin as the dealership wouldn't do anything about the issues.
Original post by Rohan007best
Hi one thing I want to clarify is I mentioned it to the garage in the first month of purchasing it. I waited a little long as I assumed the warranty they initially said they would provide was valid. The whole reason for me wanting to refund was because they lied about the warranty. I bought the car for the warranty it covered so much including engine issues etc. Only then when I tried to activate the warranty they said it wont work because the car is too old but had they told me this when I was buying the car I wouldn't have bought the car in the first place. I've been consistently emailing, calling and making the dealership. Since September 2023 till about April 2024 which is when I decided to just give up. I told them about the engine issue but at the time I didn't know I had to record evidence I just thought simply telling them was enough. I only recorded the issue with brake lights as it was then I realised I should keep evidence. I had no choice but to fix these issues through a mechanic and my cousin as the dealership wouldn't do anything about the issues.

I get that the seller has generally mucked you about and that you had tried to raise the issues with them - but at THIS stage I think you need to let it go, pretty much no way they will accept it back now or pay for other garages work. The info I gave above is in terms of making a complaint to any creditor you bought the vehicle through so you would obv need evidence there.

As said these used warranties are basically junk and it's probable neither of your issues would ever have been covered by it in the first place, I obv can't know what caused the rpm issues but again sounds like wear and tear. I get you're saying you wouldn't have bought the car if you knew the warranty sucked, but as it was a 3rd party warranty they might not have been aware themselves at the time, they've offered you a warranty of their own which you refused and got a refund.
Reply 19
Original post by StriderHort
As someone who has made a successful claim again a motor trader via my credit card I really don't think there's much of a claim here for 3 main reasons
OP has had the car and used it for nearly a year
OP has taken the car elsewhere for work
It's unlikely the seller is responsible for these probable wear & tear issues, you aren't getting a refund over a loose light wire or some odd RPM business that your mate 'fixed' (how would you even prove it existed now or was present when you bought the car?)
For mine I had to send evidence of severe corrosion and a report from a mechanic stating that the vehicle was dangerous with the defects outwith what could be considered reasonable wear & tear etc, and as I made my claim a month or so after buying it, it was clear the issue was present at the time of sale.

Ultimately it would be for the Financial Ombudsman to adjudicate on the matter and each case is dealt with on it’s merits.

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