Is Trump a bad person / why do people like him?

Original post by Jebedee

Anyone who is promoting the Jean E Carroll hoax has either not seen her CNN interview, or is generally just being fundamentally dishonest.

I haven't seen it... but honest Q, if it hasn't convinced a court why will it convince me?

Reply 83

AF2Dr

12

Original post by StriderHort

I haven't seen it... but honest Q, if it hasn't convinced a court why will it convince me?

There was a state supreme court in America who were convinced that they could remove Trump from a Republican state ballot, and courts in America who were convinced that Trump was not entitled to any immunity from criminal prosecutions. Guess what? They were wrong.

Lawfare is being used against Trump because the Democrats are terrified of actually having to beat him at the ballot box.

Reply 84

SHallowvale

15

Original post by AF2Dr

There was a state supreme court in America who were convinced that they could remove Trump from a Republican state ballot, and courts in America who were convinced that Trump was not entitled to any immunity from criminal prosecutions. Guess what? They were wrong.
Lawfare is being used against Trump because the Democrats are terrified of actually having to beat him at the ballot box.

What do you think is more likely? That there's a grand conspiracy among Democrats and legislatures across multiple states to shut down Trump or that maybe, just maybe, Trump is a terrible person?

Reply 85

Original post by AF2Dr

There was a state supreme court in America who were convinced that they could remove Trump from a Republican state ballot, and courts in America who were convinced that Trump was not entitled to any immunity from criminal prosecutions. Guess what? They were wrong.
Lawfare is being used against Trump because the Democrats are terrified of actually having to beat him at the ballot box.

For one thing this 'lawfare' is something Trump is also very well known for surely? he's filing things almost non stop, many of which are thrown out of various courts for being preposterous and a lot of his lawyers seem to run into serious legal problems themselves.

Are you suggesting I should just ignore any courts, verdicts investigations etc because of the possibility they may be in some way politically influenced? I'm not about to pretend corruption doesn't exist or that everything is 1 sided, or that a somewhat controversial civil trial is the 'be and and end all' but I'm going to trust it over internet randos who are openly Trump apologists and maintain he can do no wrong? This surely can't be a shock.

Reply 86

Original post by Wired_1800

Some people are full of hatred and pure evil. To think that one would want someone to be killed before believing is beyond all that is positive in this world imho.

If you can't imagine any situation where someone might justifiably prefer someone else wasn't around any more (which doesn't mean they're actually going to do anything about it themselves!), then you have a very limited imagination. Do you think the Americans who celebrated when Osama Bin Laden was killed are "full of hatred and pure evil"?

Reply 87

Universities Forum Helper

Original post by Stiffy Byng

I assume that the assassination attempt was real. Whether real or staged (which I think unlikely), it may give Trump a small boost in the polls. I detest Trump, but don't wish him or anyone dead.
I think that Biden, for the good of the US and the World, should step down and let a younger candidate oppose Trump in the election.

From few hours ago, but PRSOM

I have no evidence it wasn't real, but the fact he/his team are known to lie, take desperate steps for power and have an obvious motive can't be ignored and questions will be asked. Ditto can't stand the guy, but don't want to see things go this way, if everyone I dislike got shot in the ear there would be a lot of people struggling to cross roads. Likewise I think Biden has had it, blood & sharks in the water etc. past a point you can't fight it.

Reply 88

Admit-One

Original post by Driving_Mad

Would you rather have a narcissist or a weak person as the leader of your country? Biden can't talk properly and he has a terrible memory. I wouldn't trust him to buy groceries let alone run the most powerful country in the world.

A weak person.

Reply 89

Original post by AF2Dr

There was a state supreme court in America who were convinced that they could remove Trump from a Republican state ballot, and courts in America who were convinced that Trump was not entitled to any immunity from criminal prosecutions. Guess what? They were wrong.
Lawfare is being used against Trump because the Democrats are terrified of actually having to beat him at the ballot box.

They beat him at the ballot box four years ago, and his response was to attempt a coup. Kind of understandable that they'd want to try to prevent another one. In fact, it's remarkable how soft Dems have been on Trump and the GOP coup plotters more broadly over the past 4 years.

Reply 90

Wired_1800

20

Original post by anarchism101

If you can't imagine any situation where someone might justifiably prefer someone else wasn't around any more (which doesn't mean they're actually going to do anything about it themselves!), then you have a very limited imagination. Do you think the Americans who celebrated when Osama Bin Laden was killed are "full of hatred and pure evil"?

First of all, you are not comparing the leader of one of the world’s most evil killing machines to the President of the United States.

Second, it is reckless and wicked to wish death on a political opponent because one does not agree with him.

Third, President Trump has not done anything so evil imho that one’s fair conclusion is for him to be terminated.

Reply 91

Wired_1800

20

Original post by StriderHort

From few hours ago, but PRSOM
I have no evidence it wasn't real, but the fact he/his team are known to lie, take desperate steps for power and have an obvious motive can't be ignored and questions will be asked. Ditto can't stand the guy, but don't want to see things go this way, if everyone I dislike got shot in the ear there would be a lot of people struggling to cross roads. Likewise I think Biden has had it, blood & sharks in the water etc. past a point you can't fight it.

Do you think that only the Trump camp would be willing to do whatever it can to win? Your view of the Democratic Party is interesting.

Reply 92

Driving_Mad

17

Original post by SHallowvale

I would rather a frail but well meaning old man running the country than a narcissistic, self serving, sexist ***hole running the country. Trump has never talked properly and cannot communicate to an audience without a teleprompter.

Some people either gloss over or conviniently forget that Trump was instrumental in causing the January 6th riots. He was part of a plot to overturn the result of the election and keep himself in power. The man is corrupt to the core and should not be anywhere near power.

The bootlickers have been out in full force recently.

Original post by Admit-One

A weak person.

Well people like both of you are the reason why the American economy is in tatters and so many working people can’t afford basic groceries.

Reply 93

mqb2766

Original post by Driving_Mad

Well people like both of you are the reason why the American economy is in tatters and so many working people can’t afford basic groceries.

Neglecting the covid spikes, the gdp growth is similar under both presidents
https://www.statista.com/statistics/188185/percent-change-from-preceding-period-in-real-gdp-in-the-us/
and trumps 2017 tax cuts were significantly skewed to the rich
https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/the-2017-trump-tax-law-was-skewed-to-the-rich-expensive-and-failed-to-deliver
A "trickle down failure".

(edited 2 months ago)

Reply 94

Original post by Wired_1800

First of all, you are not comparing the leader of one of the world’s most evil killing machines to the President of the United States.
Second, it is reckless and wicked to wish death on a political opponent because one does not agree with him.
Third, President Trump has not done anything so evil imho that one’s fair conclusion is for him to be terminated.

Firstly, correct, I wasn't strictly comparing them, I was engaging in reductio ad absurdum to demonstrate that yes, sometimes, people do understandably celebrate when other people die. But why does being the President of the US stop you from being evil? There's nothing especially morally sanctifying about the presidential office - lots of presidents round the world and throughout history have been horrific murderous dictators.

Secondly, I do not see Trump as a "political opponent" who one merely "does not agree with". He is, in fact, an active threat to the free democratic political order in which one can have normal, cordial relations with political opponents who you can have respectful disagreements with. I'd very much like the US to return to a more "normal", tolerant political environment without threats of mass political violence and persecution. And while he is not the only person responsible for the collapse of the environment, Trump is more responsible for it than anyone else. Restoring a calmer democratic politics requires him no longer being part of it.

Thirdly, I don't believe anyone "deserves" death - I'm completely against the death penalty, even for the worst murderers. But as I said above, Trump is a fundamental threat to US democratic society. He attempted a coup, and democratic countries typically do not permit coup plotters to remain in political life. There were numerous opportunities to resolve this in a calmer way. There were two impeachment trials, in either one of which Republicans could have joined Democrats in voting to convict Trump and then bar him from running for office again - yet only a small minority did so. Trump could simply have chosen not to run again, or leading Republicans could have discouraged him from doing so and renounced him, but they did not. Then there was the effort to bar him from office as a traitorous rebel under the 14th Amendment, but that was blocked by mostly Republican judges. Other Republican judges have blocked similar attempts to prosecute him for his coup attempt. I'm not going to praise or justify the shooter or any other attempt to kill someone, but I'm also not going to begrudge some people celebrating if he were removed from American politics when he and the GOP have rejected numerous off-ramps to do so in a way that would've been easier for everyone.

(edited 2 months ago)

Reply 95

Original post by Driving_Mad

Well people like both of you are the reason why the American economy is in tatters and so many working people can’t afford basic groceries.

Er, the US economy is currently the fastest-growing in the developed world: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68203820

Reply 96

Universities Forum Helper

Original post by Driving_Mad

Well people like both of you are the reason why the American economy is in tatters and so many working people can’t afford basic groceries.

"You're the reason the American economy is in TATTERS!"

"We're not American, and no it isn't"

(edited 2 months ago)

Reply 97

Admit-One